Podcast With Kalin Karakehayov

Age Domain Secrets for SEO Mastery with Kalin Karakehayov

Show Notes

Unlock the secrets of age domains and elevate your SEO mastery in 2025! In this step-by-step guide, discover how to rank your website number 1, drive more organic traffic, and dominate search engine rankings with proven strategies. Join Navneet Kaushal on the Agency Insider Show as he interviews SEO.domains founder Kalin Karakehayov, a leading expert with over 200,000 domains in his portfolio. Learn actionable insights into using age domains, link building, and advanced SEO techniques to achieve a #1 ranking and future-proof your strategy.

Whether you're a beginner or an experienced marketer, this video dives deep into practical tactics to optimize your site, harness the power of backlinks, and stay ahead of the competition. Ready to transform your SEO game and maximize your website’s visibility? Don't miss out on these essential tips for 2025 and beyond!

Subscribe now to the Agency Insider Show and take the first step toward mastering SEO. Leave a comment and share your biggest insights with us!

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

00:49 - Kalin's Journey into SEO and Domain Acquisition

09:57 - Evolution of SEO.Domains

17:10 - Building a Massive Domain Portfolio

21:07 - Aged Domains vs Expired Domains

23:59 - Power of Aged Domains

27:58 - Google's Love-Hate with Gray Hat SEO

33:18 - Google's Treatment of Gray Hat SEOs

35:43 - Buying Expired Domains: Key Considerations

42:20 - Language for Backlink Domains

49:24 - Effective Link Building Strategies

52:10 - Scaling Link Building Challenges

54:14 - In-house Teams vs SEO Specialists

56:50 - White Label SEO for Agencies

59:06 - Combining Aged Domains with Link Building

01:00:55 - Future of SEO in the Next 2 Years

01:05:37 - Where to Find Kalin

01:06:31 - Finding Value in This Episode

Transcript

Intro

0:00 welcome to the agency Insider show I'm your host nnit kosel and I'm thrilled to bring you another exciting episodes

0:07 where we dive deep into the word of digital marketing and Entrepreneurship today we have a very special guest

0:12 joining us Kalen kako Kalen is renowned entrepreneur founder of seo. domains and

0:19 a leading expert in age domains link building and the psychology of entrepreneur yes it does exist with a

0:26 portfolio of over 200,000 domains and years of experience in Su strategy Ken

0:32 has truly revolutionized the way we think about domain Acquisitions and Link

0:38 [Music] [Applause] [Music]

0:46 [Applause] building Ken welcome to the show thanks

Kalin's Journey into SEO and Domain Acquisition

0:52 for having me uh before we dive into the Integrity of age domains and Link building I would

0:59 love for our audience to hear about your journey what inspired you to venture into the word of SEO and domain

1:05 acquisition uh I used to be a professional chess player when I was growing up I was top 1,000 in the world

1:11 which is semi-professional uh I could make decent money as a chess coat uh but it was kind

1:19 of boring it was nice working with kids but uh then I got bored explaining the same things over and over again to

1:25 different kits uh but I had to create a website for my chess club and this is

1:32 when I first uh encountered the digital space I learned a bit of HTML WordPress

1:39 and then I tried to to increase traffic to the website that's when I kind of did SEO before I knew I was doing it I was

1:46 trying to get some backlinks this was way ago in 2007 okay and gradually uh the chess

1:55 thing became an after thought I quit chess then I quit the coaching I started making website but SEO was really

2:03 something that uh that caught my attention because it seemed that with a small effort one time you can then Rank

2:10 and have traffic uh for a long ongoing period it seems like a very good deal uh

2:16 so I was really into SEO for a few years um I get something like a small agency I

2:22 work with clients uh but then I discovered link selling which was even better because with link selling you had

2:29 a very short transaction uh you got some money especially with link rentals got some

2:36 long-term uh subscription money uh from a client and you just need to keep the

2:42 website index and keep the link live which seemed like an even better deal because then uh you could just do

2:49 nothing but create endless websites so this is how I started building pbn uh at

2:55 the beginning everything was great then 2012 2013 Google had very evil manual uh editors

3:02 in Bulgaria so they uh targeted me personally uh some something that has

3:09 also happened to car Glo and uh other other SEO people uh it was a personal

3:15 targeting so everything that was on my quiz doesn't matter if it was a pbn or something else or even just a cute

3:21 website for or something that I like uh everything my C being naughty

3:33 so everything everything that I had buil

3:38 basically got the index first with file through consideration some got through index but in the end they just the index

3:45 everything um kind of pernament they would not to any reconsideration request

3:51 and then I Chang the strategy I did I changed some of the website into like

3:58 super non office looking websites that were have anyo link didn't

4:07 cations then when Google rejected them I made B screenshot of the rejections and madebe switch the open letter that

4:14 Google is Evo that manual accent is just targeting

4:20 people not website and I just Tred to make a big F about it it kind of worked

4:26 the penalty stopped it turns out that even back in 200 13 everyone already

4:31 hated Google and and especially the the Google people the AdWords back then guys

4:36 they were like oh Google is the worst and I was like I didn't expect expect the support from you guys but

4:43 apparently Google is uh Google is um making your life hard too so I got kind

4:48 of support open letter got more than 10,000 views in a short time there were a lot of posts on social media uh I

4:56 advocate for people to install adlock saying that this is the only way to hurt Google and a lot of people in Bulgaria

5:03 did um this was when YouTube was only becoming popular and when you when people discovered that they cannot they

5:10 can block the ads on YouTube they were very happy and um and and so on I got

5:16 rid of the penalties for a few years but building a hug TDM seemed risky again I

5:23 kep lost the majority of it so what we did was we thought can we just give

5:30 people the domains and scale this as much as we can and then people will build their own tdns and they will take

5:37 the risk of being index we we can have a one time transaction just selling the domain so this was the continuation of

5:46 the process which started uh I think two years earlier 2012 I had already started hunting for

5:53 domains it was very easy back then there were good domains even available in a more weirder extens

6:00 so but 2014 we decided okay we make the major

6:05 SH now the domains are going to be the main thing not the link selling and we basically became a domain company the

6:12 most interesting thing is that we got some seed funding so we convince like

6:17 not VP invest small smaller amount SE level but but still uh Tech investment

6:25 uh fund that invested into Tech startups we convince them that SEO is Tech and that SP is profitable and that they can

6:32 invest in basically our uh PDN resource finding domain machine uh and this this

6:40 investment was a very good verification that this thing can actually work with the investment SC up and uh since then

6:48 it has been a slow but steady growth in the domain industry learning more and more uh about domains because in the

6:54 beginning I knew a lot about SEO but knew nothing about domains in fact a beautiful

7:00 uh M of Industries but I just didn't know what I was doing so slower growth

7:05 than uh it could have been so and since then you have never Lo uh yes uh

7:11 basically we we get more and more domains then we started working with Nono domains good names traffic domains

7:19 our company is a very uh unique business uh model because everyone else is

7:27 dealing with domains of certain kinds they are top domainers that do only for

7:33 example two keyword. comom domains like top insurance.com domains that sounds

7:39 like this and this is their specialty they understand it they buy and they sell and they never look at anything

7:45 else because this is already a huge Market we do something completely different we are good at nothing but we

7:53 also uh we are also bad at nothing so we have a general understanding of the

7:58 domain industry and of domain so we can data and we just look at what is so

8:06 cheap that we can never lose money on this investment even if we don't understand it maybe the these domains

8:12 are so cheap and so easy to C because no one really understands the value or the people who understand the value they are

8:17 not able to catch them people who catch them they don't see the value uh we can catch them we kind of see some value

8:26 we're not very um it's not based on reliable data or

8:31 something it's more on Tri and error but when you get domains for $5

8:38 you get a lot eventually some names will be good some will have traffic some uh

8:44 backlink profiles will be attractive to to SEO buyers and we tried this and that and that's how we ended with 200,000

8:52 domains uh and they don't follow any specific investment rule because this is

8:57 B basically an investment operation we don't have any investment rule other than the super obvious buy cheap sell

9:04 expensive so uh everything else is an improvisation so maybe this year uh in

9:12 Indonesia they will have uh uh gaming uh gambling uh boom maybe

9:20 the government ban their website and they need new domains they need to make Turn and Burn and this is when the

9:26 Indonesian domains become 10 times as more expensive we should know it and we could catch this way then maybe

9:33 something happens in another country let's say in the other country they release their one and two letter noain

9:38 then we are there we scale our effort to get we we just try to be where there's

9:43 no competition that's uh that's the principle that our domain compan is

9:49 operating do things the most easy way where there's less competition and where

9:54 wi Ling FR okay now uh so since your in in since

Evolution of SEO.Domains

10:02 the Inception of su. domains uh how has the website and how is your business

10:08 evolved over time is it remain same as you said or have you changed more uh in

10:14 terms of business well it was mostly scaling we started with just a few countries where it was very easy to get

10:21 good domains and then we gradually sced first to the UK then to most European

10:26 countries 2020 we starting doing Doc and basically every country the only two countries which we

10:35 don't uh three countries maybe that from the big ones that we don't do Russia

10:41 China and Australia uh Russia and China are very big markets and very hard to get good

10:47 domain and Australia has someing regulations

10:54 very right we do cover because we do have DOS

11:00 with Russian links with Chinese links with Australian links we just don't fight for the local the so the areu the

11:07 CN and the doom. but all the other uh world every country even if there's some

11:14 small country somewhere um we try to C every domain possible for for example

11:21 two days ago there was a good domain dropping in uh I think it was Guatemala

11:27 and we made a special bot to try to to fight for this domain that was probably in gual there will be one good expiring

11:33 domain a year but we don't care like if the value is there we will do our effort no matter if it's a onetime opportunity

11:40 if it's a small country uh every Market has the a good strategy of how much we

11:47 invest in order to get something back we always invest a little get some low hanging fruits and sometimes we invest a

11:54 lot for example in the UK we are still very invested and we one of the biggest drop catchers okay now now you've been

12:00 doing since all more than 10 years now now have you seen the change in your uh

12:06 buyer profile for example when you started I'm sure most of the pbn guys were taking it just for that now so have

12:12 you seen how these websites are you or what kind of a customer base you have yes in the beginning it was mostly pbn

12:20 pbn uh then it got fashionable to build your money titon [Music]

12:26 on and then do and also ready so uh then we had a lot then we had a lot of do

12:33 then in the 2023 hpu update the normal affiliate got a big hit but the gambling

12:41 affiliate didn't get a hit because I guess it's just harder for Google to rank redit or for

12:50 forino bonus casino and very keyword different languages different view a lot

12:57 of brand keywords so gambling didn't really take the same kit

13:02 and before we had 30% gambling now it's I think about 60 70% gambling bias

13:08 there's huge money to be made there if you're wondering what needs to get in at

13:14 say gambling I I also have the suspicion that ad is a very good n but uh uh we do

13:21 have some Biers but um not really on the same scale but I just do suspect that

13:26 there a lot of money there too everything that doesn't care Google web is is the best possible choice because then otherwise uh for like U best air

13:36 purify you have on the top uh AI overviews

13:42 photos uh Google sing it's just you have to scroll two two screens down to to see

13:48 the organic results while for gambling ke keywords uh no ads

13:55 usually um AI overviews would would be risky so I guess there will be much less

14:00 of those um no Google shoppings and you you start with the

14:06 organic result which is a much better deal for the for the affiliate our

14:11 buyers are naturally almost entirely affiliate um this is where the huge competition is the the big affiliate

14:19 keyword um there are keywords and they're not even in English some keywords in in gam link affiliate that

14:27 brings more than one million commands from from first place just from one keyword and when you add the long ta

14:33 become 3 million so crazy this is in Sweden for example

14:38 it's not a big country but some keyword does they bring crazy money in in gam

14:44 link affiliate uh so a lot is invested there are companies

14:52 who have seven figure monthly budget for link building in in gam link affiliate

14:59 seven figures per month so more than a million in this case like every bit of

15:06 Ling juice that you can squeeze becomes valuable and since

15:11 domains bring a lot of Link Bo in what one

15:18 swingable for for this okay now uh after specifically you

15:24 mention hu update so what has the I I'm sure a lot of affiliate websites would

15:29 have dropped and uh is that the case because lot of websites got hit BYU I'm sure a lot of businesses a lot of uh

15:36 businesses moved out of the affiliate business so did you pick those domains as well no actually in SEO it's not like

15:43 other businesses like for example if a a restaurant goes busted they they will stop paying their rent they will get

15:50 evicted and something else will be there either another restaurant or or something else but in SEO renewing your

15:55 domain is so cheap an affiliate website don't don't really require maintenance

16:00 so they don't uh let's say vacate the space in economical terms everyone who

16:05 got hit in 2023 still renews their domain make some maybe small money uh

16:11 and waiting for better days they maybe they they sell links they do something but no one will just let a website that

16:18 requires no maintenance just vanish for when the maintenance cost is $10 per

16:24 year so actually affiliate website almost never expire yeah they they will get acquir or something they will not be

16:30 left to to to expire but

16:35 what website that that see the end of the life cycle companies merging

16:42 companies going bankrupt start not managing to to

16:48 grow lot of events a lot of government programs and other projects there are

16:54 lovely websites that are expiring sadly but uh there's nothing we can do about it

17:00 uh right what what we can do is profit but if we don't profit someone elsewhere

17:07 with okay now now uh so you've been described as one of the biggest domainer

Building a Massive Domain Portfolio

17:13 in the world what does it take to build such a massive portfolio of domains I'm I'm sure so much inventory and so much

17:18 money always keep invested getting those domains renewed so what does it actually involve does it involves mindboggling

17:26 numbers how do you manage these bigger numbers company is 120 people okay so lot of go

17:35 into managing we have a seven people paperwork Department that only do

17:40 accounts deposits contracts and just all of the paperwork surrounding the because

17:46 we handle the domains ourselves Lely we have our own reg in I think more than

17:51 100 countries we're very widely accredited because this is It's required for the

17:57 cing not all for the maintenance of what for the C and once you have uh we have

18:03 maybe more than 500 different accounts that hold our domains so this requires a

18:09 lot of Maintenance but this is actually it's not a disadvantage this is an advantage because it means that uh there

18:16 are some really good Sketchers So Pro developers who can write a good catching

18:22 skpt but if the creating the account in order to be able to catch the API if

18:27 this requires a ton paperwork this actually offut these very smart people who don't want to find confcence do

18:35 technical test like get their financials audited

18:40 and all of the stupid stuff that uh we're getting us to do on a daily basis

18:45 so uh this is actually the advantage because it makes the our business

18:51 requires so many boring and annoying things that the competition is much less that it should be on the just dat on the

18:59 so actually we get the golden mind doing something that is U not so hard to do

19:05 but boring annoying requires a long-term Investments uh for example in order to

19:12 to be able to catch do com and net and or the the big G you have to make an icon accreditation and this takes about

19:20 an year endless forms processes it's just bureaucracy a a rear of bureaucracy

19:26 because and PE before you start actually uh taking back any uh any return on the

19:33 investment and this is very offputting to people because it's Anno it's annoying it's boring it's longterm uh

19:41 it's also uh kind of insecure you don't have you don't know okay I do a so I

19:46 will get B you do a in order to have some chance to get something in the future of course this chance averages

19:52 over time but you can never be sure that you will be able to get that exact domain uh we had we that set cases

20:00 like okay we're catching all of the domains in in this extension and here comes a domain that uh that's worth

20:07 $50,000 and suddenly someone else catches it like and they they never CAU a domain before in this exens it was

20:13 just bad luck but it has it has also happened the opposite it has happened

20:19 that we have bu an OCT for a domain that just seems okay and then it Mak crazy money traffic we once one $30 option for

20:27 domain the domain made $156,000 from trafic so

20:33 156,000 against an investment of 30 not 30,000 30 uh so Cra Crazy wins possible

20:39 in the domain world if you if you try long enough you eventually get those too

20:45 so yeah the the lack coverage is over time but uh it's a tough field great

20:52 field economically tough field psychology psychologically it's it's annoying it's boring uh you you need a

20:58 great team otherwise you just get sick of it so this is really a big advantage

21:04 that we have okay now let's talk a bit about

Aged Domains vs Expired Domains

21:11 more about age domains now age domains of course always been a Hot Topic in SEO and some of course wear by them other

21:17 are skeptical and you have built an Empire around them so let's break it down what exactly is the difference

21:23 between an age domain and an expired domain or are they same when somebody's BL there used to be kind of a small

21:30 difference before people were doing case studies that domains that got to drop catch and snap names had their creation

21:37 dat reset uh that they perform a bit worse than domains from

21:43 let's say go of G had the creation date set um but then all all of the country

21:49 domains Google doesn't check the creation date according to to what we know some country domains like for

21:54 example in Germany they don't even have a creation dat incl so um so basically we can divide the

22:02 domains into three categories uh eight domains uh like from

22:07 gold auctions good uh country domains good especially for the for the country

22:13 in question of course if you want to rank in UK you need UK domains otherwise won't work uh and uh and then we have

22:21 those uh domains that went for o but get also the the exire domains reset uh and

22:27 it was very confusing because the H domains people used to call them oxom domains but also domains go to oxom

22:34 without having the like the oxom uh thect meaning that they

22:40 were uh they were assigning to them so it was a big terminology M this get come

22:47 better in the last years because uh it turned out that whatever was the

22:53 difference between the dropped and the non-d dropped domains it's probably relevant in very specific cases only for

23:00 moneys site not let's say pbn and 301s and uh and in in case of Mite maybe only

23:06 in case of you are being specifically aggressive with with some more stmy content if you do something more legit

23:12 it's fine also with a drop domain and in the end just we all gave up on this

23:18 stupid terminology and we call everything eight domains called fire domains the domains from the O the

23:23 country domains everything is an AG domain because it has a this is the the best terminology

23:29 um if you want specifically to to say the domain was from an O and with drop

23:36 or o without drop you can say dropped or non dropped which is what it actually is but like say saying takes five and H and

23:44 o mean different people mean different things is not a good terminology so I

23:49 prefer just go everything El now uh this is better for better for the industry and for the understanding of the

23:57 Theos and and uh there are three uses TBN 301 and moneys site TBN should have

Power of Aged Domains

24:04 their golden age because uh AI content free uh cloud cloud flare account many

24:11 name servers free hiding of the IP and who is hidden after pdpr so has never

24:16 been easier 2012 people were making so many pbn and it was damn hard to make a

24:23 pbn some domains didn't have privacy uh privacy cost money some places you

24:29 didn't have Cloud Player you you you were supposed to use different hosting it was so annoying extremely annoying to

24:35 have all of these hosting accounts and think about doing the domains here and there uh it was just such a pain and of

24:43 course you had to pay for Content actually the if you want to to to do a pbn in the weird language like something

24:51 Scandinavian uh the highest expense was actually the content for 10 articles because an art an article in Swedish was

24:58 cost like 30 30 per wow yeah because

25:04 like no PO seds you know the extremely

25:10 expensive so and it was so difficult to do pbn and

25:15 people were doing them all the time and then like they just got I think set up

25:20 with all of the maintenance cost and and setup cost and all of the headaches and

25:27 a lot of companies dit pbn because it became very easy to just buy guest post

25:32 uh endlessly but pbn and guest post Ser different purposes guest posts give you

25:38 trust like you get links from an Authority website but very little juice a dbn give you a ton of juice but little

25:44 trust because it's some uh it's some uh not so powerful age domains but the link

25:51 is from the homepage so it gives a ton of juu uh all of the jues basically that come to this domain it's a the3 it comes

25:59 to your website because it has no other outgoing link link so the juice is not going anywhere else you're taking all of

26:05 the juices almost already wck uh so TBN

26:11 are super good for juice the higher competition it is when your website is already Authority but they like 100

26:17 Authority website fighting to let's say payday loans or whatever super competitive keyword is the juice would

26:23 win juice is very important especially for the these keyword that don't CH so

26:28 so much long there but they're just the fights for this one keyword and the Jews that the JY links with the anchor text

26:35 will decide who gets the top so pbns should never go out of fashion they

26:40 should be actually in their best St but somehow pbn went kind of out of fashion

26:46 for a bit now I think they're returning but it's all like a cultural Trend it should be the best uh it should be the

26:52 best Stage for pbn 301 I think they already had the golden AG now they still

26:57 kind of of working but uh you should do them carefully you cannot just do them

27:03 like few years ago whatever you tou with a 301 in turn to go it's no longer like that so uh but in more time inies again

27:12 like gambling and out 301 still Rule and money site will always be dependent on

27:18 find finding a good domain because if you find a great domain that was in the exact same Niche name is also good uh

27:26 sometimes it's even possible sometimes to have some leftovers of organic traic although this is very rare but once you

27:32 build a website and you TR try to stay as close as possible to the old website you can still see great results

27:39 especially the domain is more powerful this is a onetime investment so

27:44 basically cing out 5,000 or $10,000 for a domain for your money site if this

27:50 project will be a six figer project is definitely a great uh a great VI all

27:55 right right now now so why do you think a domain still works for SEO despite

Google's Love-Hate with Gray Hat SEO

28:02 Google algorithm updates and uh all those restrictions why do you think they still works well um first we have a lot

28:10 of empirical evidence for for this it's it's not a theory thing you just see site on AG domains ranking everywhere in

28:17 all all of the competitive misses even H in some spes uh eight domains that have nothing

28:24 to do with the topic of the website let's say restaurant becomes cin you know affiliate website ranks in the top

28:31 so um it works as to why it works I'd say

28:37 that um Google has a hidden uh love haate relationship with bread Bally

28:43 bread not black um the thing is uh

28:48 here's how Google would approach this uh for Google there are two types of

28:55 websites there are websites that would eventually spend money for Google ads

29:01 and ones that wouldn't so if the if you think the website would eventually possibly spend

29:09 money for Google ads it makes economical sense to tank their rankings because

29:15 because then they will be more motivated they are not no longer getting the free or cheap value from SEO and they'll be more motivated to stand for ads but this

29:23 this website defined by its Niche size and typ suchus of Affiliates or e-commerce or whatever uh if Google's

29:31 data shows that this website would never spend money for Google and then Google

29:38 is it whatever I don't care because I'm never getting a sent from those guys

29:43 so if they rank high or low like uh the ad revenue is more important than the

29:48 quality of the service because it brings money and we're already a monopoly so we

29:53 don't have to have super great Surs as you can see as a Google user uh ser quality is not the best in this year the

30:00 last year um so from Google standpoint Google is like Okay can they give us

30:07 money or will they never give us money if the situation is they will never give us money which is like all of the

30:14 gambling and out and other things that they just don't have it then Google is like it by default uh like

30:21 everything works because penalizing website is an expensive you need editors to check the website you need engineers

30:28 extremely expensive uh data engineer to make a better

30:33 algorithm and all of this costs money for Google and each company the ma the

30:39 main goal in the end is to have the best possible bottom line so if you're never getting uh from the gambling affiliate a

30:46 dollar for ads then why spend money to penalize their website where who will

30:52 come in his place another another gambling affiliate like what are you investing money to change like all of

30:58 those websites are just a bunch of reviews right and okay now there are a bunch of AI written reviews but if you B

31:05 one website with an AI written review comes another with an AI written review so uh it just doesn't make sense as a

31:13 company like as a I get it but as a company which has a bottom line it doesn't make a lot of sense to invest uh

31:21 into those uh who uh to penalizing those who are uh so great that they will never

31:27 run which is most of the uh affiliate uh but the GRE Google also needs them because

31:34 although it's secondary the quality of the search is kind of important and who ruins the quality of the search is not

31:41 the great cat who had a big nice uh affiliate website with good investment with on reviews and everything it's the

31:47 blackhead so if you have some ultimate blackhead strategy working then you get a lot of fan online

31:55 which is kind of bad for Google reputation because people know that people are doing it for Google for

32:01 example if someone runs X rmer and places 2 million links on forums

32:07 today like sooner or later people realize that they are doing it because of Google and Google gets blamed for the

32:14 stamp so Google doesn't like blackhead blackhead is the paining yes they would not uh get money from them like at any

32:23 point in the future just like the gray cat but the black cat is also a pain because you get very ugly websites

32:29 ranking you like just basically hacking Google's algorithm finding calls and

32:34 great black pet is a problem ask yourself the question if in

32:40 some n there is only gray and black ranking let's say cuin know affiliate in Indonesia only Grand black head Google

32:48 tolerates the gray head because they keep the black heads at base so even though Google knows that every everyone

32:54 uses TBN and exact match anchors and all of those very very great head strategies

33:00 feel better than people hacking website or uh doing massive amounts of SP so for

33:06 Google it's less trouble so Google kind of hates black uh gray heads because

33:12 they don't spend money on Google ads but also kind of tolerate them because otherwise blackhe is much worse for

Google's Treatment of Gray Hat SEOs

33:18 Google uh as a company and as a search engine and so you have these big gambling companies doing a lot of CBN

33:25 buying a tons of links but as long as they're big and Google Sees some quality

33:31 like quality websites like they made beautifully that ux is good and the

33:37 content is uh not shitty then Google is like okay okay here's an unstolen deal

33:44 you rank as long as you're big so if you're big you get a you can

33:50 get away with a lot more grayhead stuff with a lot of more link buying with a

33:56 lot more um with a lot more pbns with a lot more age domains and redirect as

34:01 long as you're big Google will not go after you because you're kind of raising the quality of the search engine and

34:07 they know they will not get your money but on the other hand why head stuff if

34:13 you're in e-commerce and you're having a good year like be sure that you're part

34:18 of Google's data algorithm that says Ah this e-commerce is just the best

34:24 possible place to just being cut off from organic traffic and since they already have an infrastructure uh they have five people

34:32 and they need to sell maybe they will turn to ad so Google can very well B completely

34:40 white head websites just in order to increase the bottom line and that's the

34:46 that's the sad part that people think that if they white head they are somehow immune to B no you become the primary

34:52 target actually because in Google's algorithm you're the one who could

34:57 potentially spend money for ads the others uh they are lost ca for Google

35:04 so when website uh applies some SEO strategy it should never be uh like whad

35:13 uh or grayhead you should look at what the successful competition is doing if the successful competition is doing only

35:18 white head maybe Google is somehow aggressive to grayhead in this in this Niche but in most spaming ises where the

35:25 big money are from the affiliate Google is very tolerating gray head and if it's

35:30 tolerating gray head you're trying to do it the white head way uh it's not that it's not possible you're just uh it's

35:37 going to be harder because gray is more effective if you don't get penalized obviously right now now uh what are the

Buying Expired Domains: Key Considerations

35:45 key factors to look at before purchasing an age domain uh we look at the back

35:50 links individually so the metrics we use just for sorting da Dr it's okay for

35:56 sorting just to remove REM the the trash and then I just look at the individual

36:01 links quality and quantity of the individual links are there links from Top media government organization go edu

36:08 links all of those and um of course the country matters if you're doing AO in a

36:15 specific country and the niche matters if you're doing SEO in a specific n but don't think that just because you're

36:21 doing uh Casino affiliate in Norway that's the pool of domains that you can

36:27 acire will have Casino domains in nor way there will be no so compromises have

36:33 to be made with the n and the country otherwise it becomes prohibitively expensive or impossible at

36:40 all to get any so searching for AG domains is a

36:46 compromise you will never be able to find the perfect name if it's for aani side and the perfectly Prof and power

36:52 and it to be clean and the history to be clean um and to have the right country

36:57 and if and for the links to be branded and pointed to the homepage which is important if it's for Mani to redirect

37:04 it's good to have more branded link and more links pointing to the homepage relative to sub Pages like you will

37:10 never be able to get all of those perfect at once so it becomes a compromise what can I like live with uh

37:19 what is let's say four out of six can I live with uh I'm in the alive if the domain is Q index and obviously not

37:25 penalized can I live with uh the domain having an ugly name if everything else

37:31 is perfect like can I live with all of those uh things and you try to weigh

37:37 your options that's the good thing about SEO domains is because very good we are

37:44 very good at catching the domains and not so good at selling them that we have so many domains we have more than

37:49 100,000 domains so there are a lot of chances if someone is looking for a specific n or country but definitely the

37:56 the best place even better than gold oan because gold oon sells more domains than us they sell them every day and they

38:02 don't keep anything because they are an oan model so at any given time we have

38:07 maybe 100 times more domain than go Octan so with us you can find something

38:13 right away while with go auctions you have to wait wait a long time and look through a lot of domains uh in order to

38:20 be able to get I think that this is the good MTH this is for uh uh for money it

38:26 and for free one for pbn it's more like just to extract the juice you stop

38:32 caring about the niche that much you care about the country though because if you're doing uh ASO in Sweden you would

38:39 want Swedish domains ideally but still it's still a compromise

38:44 because uh the Scandinavian countries um Canada

38:50 Australia southeast Asia like Indonesia Thailand and so on uh they have such

38:55 competitive uh internal Market due to due to gambling Affiliates earning a ton of

39:02 money that it would be 10 times harder to get an Indonesian domain with let's

39:09 say dr30 than a do com with a dr30 okay do with a dr30 on oxen or at SEO domains

39:16 would cost like $300 400 500 depending on the quality of the links but in in

39:22 Indonesia it will cost 5,000 so is it worth it over paying that

39:28 much just to have the local link or maybe you can try buy some cheap Indonesian pillow links so Google knows

39:35 that you the website and then just buy coms or actually not even com you can

39:40 use domains from any country in any country uh let let's say for example

39:46 that the uh domain Market in some count is very underdeveloped um Let me Give an

39:52 example okay Argentina for example a lot of good age domains not a lot of a good Market Eon economy is in sble so even

40:00 gambling is not that profitable there so you have Argentinian domains you can get the Argentinian domains and use them in

40:06 Indonesia no problem at all no issue the problem is when the country say a language for example if you get Canadian

40:13 domains and use them in the UK then Google will rank you in Canada and because you don't sell stuff in Canada

40:19 you sell stuff in the UK then then it's a big problem but if Google will only do

40:24 this if they cannot determine the the language of the website think the since the Indonesian website will be in

40:30 Indonesian and in Argentina they speak FIS it's impossible to mix it it up so

40:36 Google will always rank the Indonesian website in in Indonesia it's impossible to rank it in Argentina because it's a

40:41 different language so domains from anywhere can be used anywhere the

40:47 problem is that there are almost no countries left with cheap domains everywhere there's some local market

40:53 Argentina is having huge economical problems this why it's one of the only examples I can give but Japanese domains

40:59 are s off in Japan uh like German domains are s off in Germany and crazy

41:06 small countries like in Europe countries like Bosnia uh mova like countries that

41:13 are small and poor uh even they have an internal Market because uh like in

41:20 Bosnia uh two good domains will drop amount and still there is some SEO going

41:26 on in Bosnia even though it's small and poor countries so basically for these two domains a month there's a big fight

41:33 which raises uh the price and it's like this in almost every country now uh many years ago country domains were easier to

41:40 catch and there was no Market in this uh in the small country so we um we

41:47 persuaded people to buy country domains and use them in uh for do or for in

41:52 other countries which didn't have easy to access domains but now it's actually the other way around now we convince

41:58 people to use Dooms in Indonesia because in Indonesian domain like uh you will be

42:04 a ma at some of oxan prices I recently saw a domain at I think it was

42:10 $80,000 in Oxon for a domain with let A50 not 18

42:15 80,000 88 one quick followup question so you

Language for Backlink Domains

42:21 said for if you have an Indonesia website you can buy a argentinia website Argentinian so what language then the

42:28 person should build that Argentinian website is it for backlink does it need to be Argentinian or

42:35 Indonesian uh well those gambling markets they have every return and burn

42:42 so basically the the life cycle or whatever you do is a we uh so you just B

42:47 your uh Indonesian uh uh Casino reviews content on the Argentinian website and

42:56 call it a day and start preparing the next one so it's a the cyle is very short there that's why Indonesians used

43:04 very large disproportionately large amount of the AG domains in the world maybe I'd say at least 20% of the AG

43:13 domains in the world are being using in Indonesia they even buying the the sem ones

43:20 well instead of having one website for let's say five years you're having 50

43:25 websites this year one for each week of the year so imagine how many domain of course they can

43:31 redirect them after the government ban them because the problem is that the government is Banning the gambling uh so

43:37 it's need there need to be more non-band domains to access money s okay and uh

43:44 all of this creates a huge demand for for for domains actually the there there was a period where the top five

43:52 countries that bought domains from SEO domains were um

43:57 Indonesia Thailand Vietnam uh Cambodia and uh I'm not sure which the

44:05 fifth one was but it was also asan so there was a moment after the help content update that all of the

44:11 Affiliates the Western Affiliates were hit so hard they were just hit so hard they were they didn't know what to do

44:18 and it's still kind of this way for many of them uh but at the same time the

44:25 Asian gambling affiliate uh they were making up for this and more

44:30 we had an an SEO order from someone in Vietnam who made a single order for

44:38 $80,000 by not even saying a word to us so no asking for Discount no

44:43 communication just going to our store and adding domains to card adding

44:49 domains for $80,000 in the card and just making a simple shop order wow and then paying and getting

44:56 the and like no communication like if this if this

45:02 wor an European or American customer they would like to be ask for discount or something like okay making a big

45:09 order there a big order here uh I have questions no just byy

45:17 now so these people are really now at the at the edge of what what money can

45:23 be earned with SEO they are earning a lot and a lot of the age do

45:28 uh go there Al also their culture is uh use a lot of AG domains and don't buy so

45:33 many backlinks and it's a cro thing because uh if the website has uh one week of

45:40 life there's no time to buy backlinks

45:46 right right right now now uh are there any risk in using AG domain and if yes

45:52 then how do you minimize well i' say TBN are very low risk is down right TDS are

45:59 the ultimate win like you create a PDN you have one big initial cost for

46:05 domains but now hosting is cheaper due to Cloud flare meaning you don't need different

46:11 hosting and also domain privacy free uh also domains are kind of cheaper

46:19 because we have a lot of inflation domain domain used to be $8 now it's 10 but we had more inflation

46:27 than this and also UK domain was4 pound and now it's still4 pound a lot of

46:32 countries didn't raise the price and now4 pound is like ridiculously small amount of money nowadays to to pay per

46:38 year to maintain the domain so domains also kind of got more expensive to acquire as H domains but cheaper to

46:44 maintain then the annual renewal got cheaper rela to to inflation uh so the

46:50 pbn cost the ongoing cost pbn is now extremely low it's more expensive to get the a domains because the market uh the

46:57 domain Market became more competitive but once you get them uh you have a more expensive asset because the this domain

47:04 with the website that you're using to link yourself is an asset and this asset is getting more expensive over time as

47:11 the fight for for domains get every day it gets tougher and you have an asset

47:17 this asset gives you ongoing value in terms of a very powerful link and you can also sell links and you can also use

47:22 it to exchange links so and basically what you pay for the domain is less than

47:29 the asset you have because once you put a website on the domain it becomes an asset more available than the domain itself even though the website is with

47:36 AI content and you invested $5 in in the whole website but but still raises the

47:41 value of the domain so from a purely business economical perspective just the best investment you can do one time cost

47:48 then very low maintenance cost right uh you get ongoing value of three types you

47:53 can link yourself you can sell links and you can exchange links so you get other more diverse links for your money

47:59 website so it's a huge win uh I I I say very low risk so because Google hasn't

48:06 been aggressively TN I think just that I said that Google seems that great as a

48:11 few to Black makes Google tolerate pdms one yeah so we just running short

48:19 of time sorry so have another segment for link building but you can finish for 301 301 301 as I said already like pass

48:28 their golden age but still work especially in more U stamin and with the money side I'll be honest it's a hit and

48:35 miss you may not win at all but in the end you can still resell the domain and get most of the money back if it doesn't

48:42 work uh but if you win you win big that that's the thing that you should always remember for age domains when you win

48:49 there are no small wins you always win B Just the moment

48:54 that you Google accept this huge of the website with all of the links already pointing to it immediately a big win now

49:02 one small question before we wrap up this section uh is the spam score something which counts or it's no this

49:09 is Spam score is a complete myth if you look at the most documentation it's an onpa thing it just sounds off page which

49:15 is extremely confusing to people they think it's correlated to the links but it's just stuff on the website now let's

49:21 move to the next section which is uh going to be link building strategies that actually work actually works link

Effective Link Building Strategies

49:26 building has always been a crucial part of isue but we know it's not as simple as just getting back links so let's dive

49:32 into it and what's your take on the most effective link building strategies today basically you need druth and Trust uh

49:39 which are two need two different strategies uh I'd recommend getting the

49:44 Dru from pbn so maybe 301 R this is the easiest and Fest part uh and trust you

49:50 can get from get cost uh Al also everything that you can put on a website with trust uh um basically uh I'm not an

50:00 expert on trust link building although we do have a Marketplace for link it's called me up.com and it's going really

50:07 well uh but but I'm not involved in day-to-day operations I'm all of an investor there uh getting trust has

50:14 never been my speciality because I started SEO in 2007 when trust didn't matter and everything was good so I'm

50:21 like the my initial initiation in the SEO industry was how to fight for

50:27 and uh I say that everyone knows C is important people buy guest B they uh

50:34 they try to get link from Top media they even do very complex and hard things like digital PR uh and I say okay buy

50:43 guest cost as long as it's uh a good investment of uh money for what you get

50:48 or also do digital PR do anything that will get you trust uh that will get you good trust cheaply but also don't forget

50:56 the trust alone will not get you far in very competitive niches and you need juice and people very often forget that

51:02 they need juice say buy buy a bunch of guest po website gets nowhere well Google doesn't see any juice any page

51:08 rank flowing to you these guest po it's four clicks from the homage somewhere even if the website is powerful no juice

51:15 is getting to you the juice is getting from the homepage links so you need some of those to now what role do Niche

51:22 relevance and an anchor optimization optimization in a successful link

51:27 building campaign uh this is largely dependent on the niche in very competitive gret this is like the

51:35 casinos we can be very aggressive with the anchor Tech uh a lot of people are doing it and they are not getting

51:40 getting uh penalized it seems like that when every

51:45 everyone is doing it it's fine in more normal niches uh I'd say it's better to

51:52 be divers on on on the safe side or also you you can just use all of your like

51:58 sub keywords for your anchors and um yeah just don't overuse the same anchor

52:04 I would say this is very easy for Google to spot unless of course you're in a very great head KN okay now what are the

Scaling Link Building Challenges

52:11 biggest challenges in scaling link building efficiently I think this is a a

52:17 challenge of scaling uh team and process so we get out of the scope of SEO here

52:22 if you have a team of 50 brilliant people they will be able to do everything on their own and you just be the business owner that's basically the

52:29 dream but of course it's never that easy but uh I highly recommend M

52:37 fingers like has uh workshops and trainings and now I think also a book is

52:44 coming out or something uh he is a super super Guru about scaling teams and

52:51 businesses and processes we have made a workshop with him specifically for oury

52:57 very happy with the uh with the painings and the results they brought yes

53:02 basically if if you don't know how to scale a company ask it's not hard they

53:08 are experts it's not uh like rocket rocket science basically scaling SEO is

53:15 scaling a company you need to scale a team of people to do the SEO task right now uh how do you handle link

53:23 acquisition at a scale especially for agencies managing multi CLI oh well it's it's again a process

53:31 thing like a platform can help for example me up.com link building Marketplace has specific functions for

53:37 agencies to manage all of the link buying in the same uh place so theform can help but um most uh bigger U

53:46 agencies have their own internal process of how to to keep everything in order uh you would probably need also some

53:53 monitoring too because uh you know especially with nich edits they can just disappear overnight uh

54:00 so it's just uh it's just processes and again scaling with a team with good

54:06 responsible people who can uh who just uh do the right job now do

In-house Teams vs SEO Specialists

54:14 you think agency should build inous team or partner with the specialized SEO providers to get better results well it

54:21 depends on the what you have available in house uh basically

54:26 some some things are great for outsourcing and some things are bad for

54:33 outsourcing the things that are great for outsourcing are the things where you Outsource one provider but there's also

54:39 a lot of Alternatives so you're never dependent on this provider this drivve the price down and the quality up for

54:45 example we allowe Outsource colling the web to H or another company and it's

54:51 cheap why is it cheap because a get competitors well a now got more expensive here we have choice but if you

54:58 compare El which analyzes the web for link for let's say similar web which

55:03 analyzes the web for traffic are very similar services and very the difficulty is quite similar to

55:10 getting this data similar web is ridiculously expensive why no

55:15 competition so if you want need need data about non-organic traffic basically

55:21 just corporate on the competition and you have only one company and if if

55:26 you're Big 4 500 company you can pay six figures a month to to similar web so if

55:31 you think a is expensive or just take a look at similar web and you see what

55:37 real like Enterprise data cost luckily the link data that we use from H or

55:43 Majestic or M or or St ranking or the other uh this data is uh there is

55:50 competition which means good good uh quality data for relatively low price

55:57 this is a good example of Outsourcing like it will be very uh impractical to cow the entire web yourself instead of

56:04 getting something for few hundred a month uh an example of bad Outsourcing

56:09 is to Outsource let's say um your whole digital PR effort let's say you do big

56:17 PL you want to do a lot of digital PR let's let's let's say this is 30 or 40% of your whole uh SEO activity and you

56:26 Outsource all of the digital PR to one provider and you don't even know of other good providers now this will kind

56:33 of make you dependent so the question always should be is it short-term dependency which is fine or long-term

56:40 dependency which is which will bring you uh bring you down inevitably so this is

56:46 the Outsourcing question uh you know at PACE traffic we work with agencies worldwide who want to

White Label SEO for Agencies

56:52 scale their SEO services without hiring an inous team of course white label Su helps them focus on CL client

56:58 relationships while we handle executions now what's your take on agencies using white label services for things like

57:05 link building well basically if your home model is to do it

57:10 like this if your whole let's say your trength is customer acquisition but you

57:15 basically have a very basic AO theme then of course this is how you build

57:21 your business because this is what you want this is what you get uh this makes you dependent but you also didn't invest

57:27 a lot because you're basically more of a middleman in this Cas it's fine because

57:33 you didn't uh you're not trying to be someone you're not so completely fine

57:39 but if you are kind of in the middle kind of trying to build your SEO team but also uh Outsourcing you may

57:46 Outsource the wrong stuff so you should be be careful because you're investing in your team which is a lot of cost in

57:52 time and money and effort but also your outsourc some stuff uh I I uh my experience is

58:02 that if you're good at building a team you'll be good at building a team for any SEO task and then use this power and

58:09 build the team and Outsource only the technical stuff like the link rollers and the data uh if you feel that

58:15 building a team is not your thing no problem just Outsource everything build your uh build your business on the idea

58:22 that you only use Outsource services with all this advantages and disadvantages and know what you are but

58:28 if you're in the middle and you don't know who you are as a business and you're confused that's the that's why

58:33 problems arise right exactly I I see a lot of agencies we work with face the same problem you need high quality

58:39 scalable Solutions without compromising results and then you want teams which can scale and then that's where the

58:46 problem becomes and of course that's where the white label SEO comes in you get trusted experts working behind the

58:52 scenes while keeping full client ownership and of course if you are just starting or you in the middle it's the

58:59 expansion gets very easy because now scaling with people gets little difficult oh yeah now yes now uh now is

Combining Aged Domains with Link Building

59:08 what's the best way to combine age domain and Link building for the maximum Su effect I I think with the age domain

59:14 you can fall into the Trap that uh you get a very powerful domain uh you put a website on it or you redir it and then

59:21 you wait so this waiting is really suspicious for Google because usually

59:26 uh especially things are going well website could get more and more natural links soci and

59:33 everything names so basically if you do

59:40 SEO with eight domains keep in mind that this is this is a huge um like rocket

59:48 engine that you're temporarily SP to your website so you need good website

59:53 and you need other links and you need uh brand traffic which can also be simulated to with BS brand searches uh

1:00:00 so you need everything to fall in line because when Google uh penalizes AI

1:00:07 content they don't actually penalize the AI content because they don't know it's AI what they're actually penalizing is a

1:00:14 website with 10,000 pages that has no links no social signals no brand search

1:00:19 that's the problem not the the AI content Google has no idea what is AI and they don't really care good AI cont

1:00:26 would rank the problem is when you when you just shoot the entire magazine and wait to

1:00:33 see what happens and then of course that's not natural that's not how natural website growth looks like in the

1:00:39 real world out of and manipulation so of course Google will uh will they may not

1:00:46 penalize but they'll like sand box you slow your growth and it will be harder to to get off the ground there right now

Future of SEO in the Next 2 Years

1:00:56 as we wrap up let's talk future Trends where do you see had SE heading in next two years uh I I think that the the AI

1:01:05 the free and good AI content will really transform uh everything because SEO

1:01:11 basically is giving money for freeing expertise content and Link now content is free what does this mean well uh

1:01:19 first the internet will be flooded with content obviously whenever you in capitalism whenever the price of something reaches zero it's it's a flood

1:01:26 uh we already know this uh that it still hasn't happened on on the scale that it

1:01:32 will happen it will still still people uh like brushing off the final touches

1:01:40 of the the huge that that will follow with content still for example you have one

1:01:48 website with a million Pages it's an Overkill because Google won't index them all right if you have 1 million site

1:01:56 with one page each it's also an overk in the other direction because one million domains cost a lot even if they are new

1:02:02 domains but if you have a thousand Pages a thousand website with a thousand Pages

1:02:09 e you perfect because then you can Interlink sale links exchange links do a lot of

1:02:15 Link stuff but you're also having actual websites with a thousand pages that can rank so like you're getting the best of

1:02:22 both and it will take time for people to for people to figure the balance that they should not do AI content with one

1:02:29 website they should do do it with a lot keep them like keep them small and kind of separate and some uh will uh make a

1:02:37 breakthrough and rank and then you can put extra link building effort to them and the rest they will be just for

1:02:43 selling links and H domains are of course perfect for this strategy but it it it will uh take some time and a

1:02:50 culture change for people to realize that that's how the big win looks right but uh but otherwise

1:02:58 obviously uh when content gets free the same money that's invested in SEO will

1:03:04 go to links and expertise and expertise will take a different form because if

1:03:11 before the expertise was how to make your website okay on page and stuff now basically everyone knows how to do this

1:03:17 so there not really a lot of expertise the real expertise will be how to fake

1:03:24 the behavior of manipulation so how to do CPR manipulation how to search for

1:03:30 your brand how to buy some traffic somewhere redirect to your brand sech

1:03:35 but in a way that some people will still click on your website not everything will just be

1:03:40 anches a lot of experimentation with traic with both that's that's the new wave of SEO coming would be the the CPR

1:03:48 manipulation but like done in a very rich and very natural way that's what

1:03:53 just like 20 years ago you put any link and it will help you even link from for site or whatever and now we don't put

1:04:00 any link to our website we got we're trying to be diverse and natural the same thing will happen with the c

1:04:05 manipulation right now we're still like in the super early ages where people are trying uh basically uh every possible

1:04:13 crude approach and then it would get into the new ances so like you people logged into Old Google accounts doing

1:04:21 very natural behavior on your website and going to the competition uh Focus

1:04:26 scking clicking back going back to the serup also these B will watch YouTube

1:04:32 videos they will be indistinguishable from a normal user to Google it would be just like actual fake

1:04:38 people online faking uh user behavior and this is where SEO is going if Google

1:04:44 keeps the nav boost algorithm they may revert on this and go back to just just

1:04:50 links which is kind of possible if the N na boost manipulation turns out to be

1:04:56 impossible to stop right but uh basically if you are someone dealing

1:05:03 with contents well tough luck content is now free if you're someone dealing with

1:05:08 links or AG domains obviously link related then I think good future and if

1:05:13 you're someone dealing with C manipulation the fun is just starting you the best possible place uh because

1:05:20 this is going to be the greatest advancement right now it's just for let's say for advanc SEO expert in one

1:05:28 or two years it will be for everyone everyone not doing it will immediately uh go down right

1:05:34 right uh Ken this has been an absolute master class in SEO domaining and of course

Where to Find Kalin

1:05:41 link building uh before we let you go where can our listeners find you and connect with you uh my name is unique so

1:05:48 you can search me on all social media uh LinkedIn Facebook I'm most active in

1:05:54 LinkedIn in Facebook I also have the Dig grow younger um let's say book platform

1:06:01 system I don't know how to describe it it's a very uh big inter interconnected

1:06:06 uh selfimprovement system which is derived from my personal experience with the help of professional psychologist

1:06:13 it's absolutely free it's nonprofit I don't even collect emails lead anything

1:06:19 uh it's it's I grow younger on YouTube and on Google you can find it and you can also find me anywhere but

1:06:28 I'm most active on Facebook okay guys if you find Value in this episode make sure

Finding Value in This Episode

1:06:34 to subscribe to the agency Insider show leave a review and share this with your fellow marketers and entrepreneurs Ken

1:06:41 thanks thanks again for being here and giving me your valuable time thank you too thank you and that's a r for catch

1:06:49 you in the next episode