Podcast With Bill Hartzer

Stop Doing Keyword SEO: The Entity Strategy Getting AI Overviews, Bill Hartzer

Show Notes

Are you still relying on outdated keyword SEO tactics? It's time to level up and embrace entity SEO—the revolutionary strategy for driving organic traffic and conquering AI overviews! In this episode of the Agency Insider Show, host Navneet Kaushal sits down with SEO expert Bill Hartzer to reveal the game-changing power of entity-based SEO and why it's the future of search rankings.

Tune in for step-by-step insights on building a robust SEO foundation, from creating well-structured pages to navigating legal issues with domains and trademarks. You’ll learn how to optimize content for entities, safeguard your website’s assets, and master domain strategies that can impact your rankings. Plus, find out how AI evaluates links, domain values, and brand mentions.

Whether you're just starting out or a seasoned pro aiming to drive more organic traffic, this episode is packed with actionable tips for today’s SEO landscape. Don't get left behind—unlock the potential of entity SEO and stay ahead of the competition.

Ready to boost your search engine visibility? Hit play now, and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share with your SEO or legal team. Let’s take your website to the next level!

Ready to transform your SEO game? Hit play now and start driving real visibility and better rankings today! 💡

Chapters:

00:00 – Intro

01:24 – How Did Bill Get Into SEO?

06:27 – What Technical SEO Principle Hasn’t Changed?

09:49 – What Are the Legal Issues in SEO: Domains and Trademarks?

19:30 – Who Truly Owns the SEO?

25:00 – Why Is FTX Suing Neil Patel?

33:13 – Why Is Domain Age and History Important for SEO?

45:23 – Is an Expired Domain Worth Acquiring for SEO?

51:09 – Does Domain Extension Really Matter?

57:30 – What Are the Current Trends and Google Updates?

01:01:50 – How Do You Implement Entity SEO?

01:03:31 – How Will AI Affect Domain Values and Link Profiles?

01:07:30 – Closing Off

Transcript

Intro

0:00 That’s what I like about this, you know, this industry and that’s why I’ve been here almost 30 years is because it’s

0:05 always changing. There’s always something to discover. You can take that Google Analytics code and put it in a

0:10 code search engine like public www.com. It will show you every single website

0:17 that has that Google Analytics code on it. How do you think AI will affect

0:22 domain values or link profiles in the next few years? Title tags, you know, we’re still from 1996 to today. keyword

0:28 in a title tag or a good well-written title tag is important and then good structure of the page. I rely on a lot

0:34 of my technical writing skills. It’s just like a good well- created page.

0:46 Welcome to the Agency Insider Show. I

0:51 your host Navnit Koshel. Today’s guest is someone I have followed closely in the SEO space, Bill Hartzer. For more

0:58 than two decades, Bill has been leading conversations around domain strategy, forensic SEO, and the legal blind spots

1:05 many marketers overlook. He’s known for combining deep SEO knowledge with domain expertise and has helped countless

1:12 companies avoid costly mistakes with everything from expired domains to trademark violations. Bill, welcome to

1:19 the show. Thanks for having me. Yes, Bill. Let’s start with your roots

How Did Bill Get Into SEO?

1:25 in SEO. You’ve been in SEO for I think over 30 years. What drew you into this

1:31 field in the first place? Yeah, originally I was a technical writer and um back in you know the in

1:39 the 19 early 1990s u and you know as a technical writer I

1:44 had a job for the computer software company. Um we were actually you know

1:49 back then we did not have any options for uh you know even Microsoft you know

1:56 mic we had Microsoft Word but you know there was not uh for web pages we had to

2:02 hand code um and you know and I was doing

2:08 actually which is kind of the precode before HTML

2:14 and so a lot of you know got a lot of experience with, you know, the the backend code of, you know, HTML. Um and

2:23 that kind of led into doing some web master duties and uh you know taking

2:29 care of web servers as well as um I started you know around 1996 or so doing

2:36 some affiliate uh where you know I would handcode a a website and then we had

2:44 Excite and Alta Vista and some you know and some of these search engines and to

2:49 get traffic and we at that point we just really wanted to get, you know, clicks on banner on banner ads. you know, you

2:56 got paid for just a click on a banner ad and u and so a lot of those basic

3:02 concepts were uh and I tried some paper click and and

3:08 u you know so I was in house um my regular job you know day job was

3:14 in-house at a telecom software company and I did the web master and kind of you

3:20 know told them that they could get you know uh leads and and traffic you know by the website so We had n uh nine

3:28 different websites in nine different languages and I was doing the you know the SEO at that point and you know

3:34 taking care of those websites uh in nine different languages that was this was about you know around 2000 to

3:41 2004. I started the uh and

3:47 then I kind of moved into the agency, you know, u you know, working for a, you know, a couple different agencies over

3:53 the years. I ran an agency for a while and then uh and then went around, you

3:59 know, about 10 years ago went around out on my own um as a you know, as a

4:04 consultant. Okay. So, was there any reason moving from agency to consultant?

4:13 you know, I think um it’s just, you know, whether or not, you know, working for somebody else or working for myself

4:20 and uh you and and you know, that’s kind of the you know, the difference. Uh

4:26 yeah, I you know, you end up working more more hours um and you know, nights and week some

4:33 nights and weekends uh you know, depending on deadlines and

4:39 you know, and and so forth. Uh but it’s yeah I mean it’s I had I had

4:46 the point where I had enough clients uh you know I have I have some clients

4:54 who have you know were at were clients of mine when I was at an agency and then

4:59 they just followed me you know o over the years u and you know a lot of them

5:05 you know I have about half a dozen clients that I you know I’ve had for you know over 10 you 10 15 10 15 years and I

5:14 take care of you know some of them I take care of everything from their you know their website to their SEO and all

5:20 their marketing and and everything uh little you know some are smaller clients

5:26 and some are a little larger clients so and you know it comes down to I mean I

5:32 think I’ve you know I I I enjoy the hands-on you know actually getting in

5:38 and looking at the code and uh you know making changes as necessary and I think

5:44 you know I’m not just you know don’t don’t just have the experience with marketing in general but I’ve seen

5:52 everything from uh you know co you know code and good

5:57 code and bad code uh right all the way through you know through uh you know

6:05 probably have seen all the black cat techniques and everything

6:10 over the years and can spot a lot of things and uh you know I’ve seen some

6:16 very positive things and very negative things on on the web. Okay. Now uh so so what I mean I’m sure

What Technical SEO Principle Hasn’t Changed?

6:27 you I I you’ve been good in technical SEO yourself as well. So what’s one

6:33 technical SEO principle that hasn’t changed and still works today?

6:40 you know, I mean, we’re still I mean, even as far as uh,

6:46 you know, it’s it’s interesting because we’re still uh title tags, you know, we’re still from 1996

6:55 um, you know, to today. You know, a keyword and a title tag or a good well

7:01 written title tag is, you know, important. And then good structure of

7:06 the page. uh you know we talk about you know and that’s where I rely on a lot of

7:12 my technical writing skills and technical

7:17 writing is is you know you have a you know it’s just like a good well-created

7:25 you know a web page it is you know H1 and head you know a heading and then

7:31 several um you know and H2 tags and subheadings and and H3 sub subheadings

7:38 and you know um using bulleted list and numbered list and all the those basics

7:44 um and having a good well ststructured web page with you know with good content

7:51 uh you know goes a long way now and I think you know even even I think as you

8:00 go forward u you know AI has been trained on all of these basic principles

8:07 a good page structure and and so forth. And that’s something that uh

8:14I I’m not sure necessarily that they look for that, but they re you know, it realizes that. And so a very good page

8:22 with uh you know that’s that’s organized

8:28 um tends to rank to rank well now and that has not changed. I don’t think uh

8:35 you know I I re remember back you know years ago with a when we had page uh you

8:43 keyword density and if you had a page or you know your page was I think it was

8:49 13% or 13.5% keyword density then you

8:54 know then uh you would rank well u and

9:00 you know and we were hiding our you know what you would do is you could hide the code by either cloaking or using a

9:08 JavaScript redirect or something to hide the fact. And so if you somebody you you

9:14 could hit the uh escape button very quickly when a page loaded and you can

9:20 see someone’s page source code uh that you know but we’ve gone from keyword

9:25 density now to just good site you know good page structure and and even good

9:31 site structure u that’s you know that’s something that has I don’t think has

9:36 changed um and and is you know is is going to be more

9:42 important as we move into even AI um this AI search world.

9:48 Right. Right. Now, now let’s let’s move to the SEO uh legal issues and risk uh

What Are the Legal Issues in SEO: Domains and Trademarks?

9:55 mitigations which is one of your forte these days. So I mean you’ve been also

10:00 very vocal about the legal minefields in SEO especially around domains. So let’s unpack that now. What are the most

10:06 common legal mistakes you see SEO or marketers make around domains and trademarks?

10:13 Well, one thing, you know, is is um you know, one of the issues is a lot of SEOs

10:20 will buy expired domain names. Um, and you know, I’m not an attorney, but I’ve

10:27 seen a lot of cases and I’ve testified um in court a lot, you know, and and

10:32 been deposed in legal cases regarding um even things that SEOs have done um

10:39 regarding expired domain names. And the basic, you know, one of the biggest print, you know, basic principles is is

10:46 that, you know, you look at a domain name and it’s expired and it’s a, you know, maybe an old company that you

10:52 think is, you know, gone out of business and, you know, they went bankrupt and they, you know, they they uh, but you

11:00 can’t, you know, somebody actually still owns that pro, you know, that that name

11:08 or that company name even though they did not file file a trademark. You know, there’s things rules like a common law

11:15 trademark. If you have been in business and been, you know, using that name and

11:21 you are well known about with that name, you know, then there is, you know, the

11:26 concept of a common law trademark. um that and so the other thing is is that

11:33 um you you know as an SEO you know I’ve seen a lot of uh SEOs go by an expired

11:41 domain name because they have has a lot of backlinks and so forth and they they

11:46 go put up you know they go to archive.org and put up the old website, right? And

11:53you know, the problem is is you don’t it’s not your content. You’re you know, you’re stealing content.

12:00And so that’s you know, an issue. Um and so

12:06you know, so uh you know, there’s issues like that. um you know certainly if you

12:13 can get the permission of the you know the former owner to use that content

12:19 that would be okay um I’ve seen that in rare you know rare cases um but yes you

12:27 definitely u in that case you know you definitely probably you know you would not want to take the content um I do you

12:35 know so there is an example you know that um I was involved with

12:41 There’s a golf course um in I in the state of Iowa in the United States and

12:47 it was a a family owned that golf course u for many years from the 1970s

12:55 and had the same name. They sold it to the to the city and then the city uh ran

13:03 it, you know, ran the business into the ground. It wasn’t very good and then and then investor they sold they the city

13:10 then sold it to an investor investor group come they bu all new facilities

13:16 everything uh and but the city city had did not renew the domain name. So,

13:23 somebody um in California, an ail a casino affiliate or sports betting

13:30 affiliate, he went and he got the old domain name domain. He put up the old

13:37 website and uh from archive.org. It had the old phone number. It had uh old

13:43 family, you know, photos that they were the owners and uh and he put the website

13:49 he put the website up and he put uh the old website up and he put casino links

13:54 or sports betting links on the sidebar and footer. Um so he really just wanted

13:59 his affiliate links there. So if somebody came to the website and and they want, you know, they clicked his

14:06 affiliate link um so forth. The problem is is that in Iowa sports betting is

14:12 illegal. So the um so the golf course which was still now a new golf course um

14:19 or new facilities but same name u that you know the that there was a problem

14:25 because now there was a website that it looked like it was their you know their website but they had sports betting on

14:32 there. So that was a legal problem right? and uh but they had no control

14:38 over this affiliates uh website, right?

14:43 So, we filed a UDRP, which is a domain name dispute. Um it cost $1,500 US to

14:50 file a dis domain name dispute. And then I was able to uh forensically

14:58 find based on the affiliate codes um the affiliate link I was able to find

15:06 the person in California who uh who had put up the website. He tried to hide he tried to he tried to

15:13 put you know um put it on cloudfire who is privacy everything. Um but it turns

15:21 out that with DNS DNA DNS history and former um there was one day in the

15:29 previous when he put up the website and he then he move then he moved it to crowdfair. Well dur that one day the DNS

15:37 history uh saved that data and showed I

15:42 was able to see his the server. I s seen every single based on the IP address um

15:50 I was able to see every single domain name um and website that he had on that

15:57 that same IP address. Okay. And you can connect if you know if if uh you are

16:04 hosting you know u um you know 10 webs of 10 of your websites also um you can

16:12 you know then you can assume that it’s the same person that owns all of these

16:17 um the same server also though that wasn’t just enough that he had Google

16:23 Analytics. So um so we had Google Analytics code um

16:29 which we all do. We you know we have a Google account and we sign up for you maybe have multiple websites for our

16:37 agency or you know I have a Google account and I have you know 25 different

16:42 uh uh I 25 different websites in my in my Google account for Google Analytics.

16:49 I can open up and change to one and it’s actually the same Google Analytics code

16:55 the ID well you I used a not only to have the ser the evidence of the serve

17:02 be on the same server but the same Google Analytics code Google Analytics

17:07 uh Google account you can take that Google Analytics code and put it in a

17:13 code search engine like uh public www.com

17:19 and you put that in and and it allows you to search

17:24 uh for that Google Analytics code. It will show you every single website,

17:29 right, that has that Google Analytics code on it. So, we had very good proof

17:36 of that it was his um his website and he was doing this. Um, and so they sued

17:43 they the comp the the golf course the investors uh, you know, su sued him and

17:52 um, one, you know, several hundred,000 for because he, you know, stole the

17:57 other and he thought he was being sneaky. Um, and but you can’t, you know,

18:03 you can’t hide. I mean it’s it’s you know it’s it’s very very difficult now to even though somebody has who is

18:11 privacy um you know you and you use cloudflare or something to hide your um or AWS to

18:20 hide your everything it’s still possible um and you know so

18:28 so yeah so I I you know I prefer to have my who is data

18:34 you know, open to the public. Um, there’s a lot of, you know, I deal with a lot of stolen domain names. We, you

18:41 know, people have a problem, um, someone, you know, hacks or a former

18:46 company or a former web designer, um, you know, steals your domain name. Uh

18:54 I I have a lot of contacts in the domain name industry and registars and registries and and um I know the process

19:02 of recovering you know someone steals your domain name and uh

19:09 you know so I you know I help a lot of people uh do that and some of them I you

19:16 know some some companies there got their domain name stolen I got got it back for them. Um, and they, you

19:25 know, fired their web designer, web developer, and then now they’re my client. Um, so I handle their SEO,

Who Truly Owns the SEO?

19:34 their, you know, their SEO, their website, their web hosting, um, everything. Okay. Now, uh, so who owns

19:45 the SEO if a company switches agency and are ranking intellectual property?

19:52 you know ultimately the you know the the company themselves should own you know

19:59 should own they need to own the domain name the website the website code um

20:06 everything u now I have seen where you know an SEO comp you know SEO firm might have done

20:13 links and they might uh they might remove links when you know when to their

20:20 client Um but there’s been you know so there’s been a lot of lawsuits um around and and

20:30 uh you know for various reasons um you know one where basically the you know

20:36 the SEO when the company uh fired their SEO their SEO the next day the SEO went

20:45 in and put um change robots text right

20:50 and file and u so you know so we there is in some CMS uh you have to turn it on

21:00 in you have to turn it on in um WordPress you have to have a plugin that that

21:06 shows ch you know changes and who made changes but uh uh Squarespace and Wix

21:13 and some of these other CMS they have they have a log of what was changed

21:19 um and on the website. So that’s but it also comes down to the

21:25 contract you know the uh you know what is in the you know what is in the

21:31 contract uh with the SEO with the SEO firm um you know who owns the content

21:38 who owns you know the website uh there’s been many times where

21:45 a small business will hire a web designer and SEO or marketing company

21:51 And the mark you know the marketing company or uh will you know register the

21:57 domain name. They will own the you know uh create the website. They will do you

22:02 know they will own everything and then you know the company maybe gets bigger

22:08 and they want to leave this mar you know this old marketing company and now uh

22:14 they don’t own the domain name they don’t own the you know so now they have to start start fresh. So it you know

22:22 that happens a lot where u they you know a company a small very small company starts they just do something basic for

22:30 a website and then they they go to leave and because they’ve gotten much bigger

22:36 uh and now they want to do uh you know have their own you know changes to the

22:43 website and everything and they’re stuck. So

22:48 there’s you know there it comes down to though I mean it you know everything even if it’s something within a contract

22:54 like that uh it could be argued in court in legal u issues um there has been a

23:02you know I’m uh been invol I have been involved in cases where uh

23:08 the company uh redes hires their web

23:14 designer or the web developer to redesign their website. And the you know the company

23:21 claims you know some in one case the company claimed that the uh that the web

23:29 web developer caused rankings drops and that now um you know they redesigned the

23:36 website and now now the the website you know is not ranking or does not bring in

23:43 as many leads as it did before. And so uh you know there’s cases where they

23:49 have you know companies have sued their their SEO firm uh u they’ve sued their

23:56 web developer uh you know for for thing for you

24:02 various reasons. I’ve been I have been on both sides where the um

24:09 as an expert witness um where one company um is uh you know suing their

24:17 web developer but and and um and I can see the web developer did did some bad

24:24 things or you failed to you know failed to do redirects or some basic things

24:31 where on the other side is the company, you know, is suing the web developer. The web developer is hiring me to defend

24:39 the help them because because the, you know, the web developer did everything right and now, you know,

24:47 and um the you know, the company is just wrong. Uh

24:52 there is a case that just came up um uh yesterday I think that apparently uh

Why Is FTX Suing Neil Patel?

25:03 uh FTX the crypto company is suing uh Neil Patel Neil Patel and his company

25:12 and uh that you know they uh for I think $55

25:17 million because they did not uh they uh

25:22 did not do SEO properly or something or failed to do you know work and um

25:30 there’s been plenty of you know plenty of cases like that. Um I know of you know uh so this will be interesting to

25:37 see um that one um as far as you know whether or not uh

25:45 but but isn’t it very subjective for somebody to sue SEO is not done right

25:50 because I mean in my defense if I’m being sued I I would always have it in my contract that the Google algorithm is

25:56 not in my control. I mean we as an agency has this line very clearly that I am doing best practices but what if

26:03 Google changes tomorrow? So if am as su agency not protected by this clause

26:10 in a lot of case yes I mean yes that’s the proper thing to do and u and but

26:16 there are cases where somebody hires SEO firm and the SEO firm does nothing

26:24 doesn’t even change title tags or does not even change anything or does not do

26:30 any work at all and Um and so you know

26:35 there has been companies that sued their SEO or what even uh you know their SEO firm because they uh did not do anything

26:43 or they want they you know they uh after you know so

26:50 you know that is just like that’s just like uh any service provider you know

26:55you u you know you charge some you you hire somebody to build you a website and they don’t even build a website. So you

27:02know it’s uh you know that happens that happens a lot.

27:08 It will be for any services even if it’s an offline services I’m sure if the person doesn’t perform their duties they

27:15 are liable to be sued but if they perform duties so that becomes little bite of a line so

27:22 that means that whenever an SEO agency is signing up clients these clauses must be ironclad and must be in there to

27:29 protect them from getting sued right it is but it’s also about communication I

27:36 think that if you To be honest with you, if you are always, you know, every, you know, every

27:42 week or every, you know, on a regular basis, you send them even to just send them an email saying we did this or we,

27:49 you know, we’re, you know, we’re working on this and uh, you know, we’re getting

27:54 some new links or we’re, you know, we we need we need content, you know, from you

27:59 for our for the website or ask some questions. Then there you know the

28:05 problems pro happen when the your your client does not hear from you at all and

28:11 they are paying as long as you continue even if you are doing bad bad SEO work

28:19 you keep keep on telling you know telling them and showing them that you’re doing something and you’re being

28:25 proactive and everything and there really would not be you know you know I

28:30 know SEO takes time uh and it does you know to see really big changes but there

28:37 are always you know if there’s a website that is live now there’s always

28:42 something small that can be done that will boo you know boost you know that

28:48 will boost something and show some addition you know some u you know traffic gains if it is a u just small

28:56 changes um there’s you know there’s always something um I find you know

29:01 Well, I do a lot of technical SEO audits and I find just a lot of I find I have

29:08 to clean up a lot of bad bad code or bad

29:13 you know something I just you know there was an issue uh just last week that

29:19 actually I’m dealing with it now this week that you know with uh they did canonical tags and um on the site

29:27 properly and they you know very large pretty large website uh and they have

29:33 all sorts of you know different uh product sizes and colors and everything.

29:38 So you know canonical tags are very important. Well in the robots text

29:43 they’re not allowing them to crawl those pages. So okay so you can’t you know if

29:50 the crawlers cannot see those pages then they cannot see the canonical tags. So

29:56 there’s just some ba you know always something um basic you know or page you know pagenation issues or uh

30:06 you know there’s always something you know that that technically that we can

30:11 um that we can see. I was talking with a uh

30:17 well not talking but they going back and forth there’s a thread in uh on on X or

30:24 Twitter um that some you know somebody said basic you know any that they said

30:30 SEO is easy I can learn and be a SEO pro in 90 days no problem and um and that’s

30:38 what they you know they they’re saying and you know frankly u you SEO is not

30:46 easy right now. You know, every we we’re always seeing changes. Um and you know

30:51 the algorithms are changing and you know um and and you know now we’re dealing

30:57with you know a lot of you know with social media and we’re you know always looking for traffic uh to our sites you

31:06 know for leads and sales and just page traffic and you know everything is you

31:12 know now we have AI now SEOs have to deal with you know with AI and and and content and everything. Um no I mean SEO

31:20 is not not something that’s easy that can we can learn in you know 90 days. We

31:26 can see some basics you know on maybe some onpage SEO

31:32 and technical issues but but no it’s definitely uh

31:39 that’s what I like about this you know this industry and that’s why I’ve been you know here almost 30 years is because

31:45 it’s always changing. There’s always something to discover. Right. Right. I

31:51 see a lot of new SEO comes and claims to be SEO. I I sometime end up hiring them

31:56 and the common problem is they think they know everything but but I just tell them it comes with experience. It’s like

32:02 it’s just like a doctor who has seen so many patients. So he knows what this symptom means but a new guy cannot judge

32:08 those because that how how I see when a site comes in. So, it’s easier for somebody with an experienced hand to

32:14 find those errors quickly and then the new guy just purely ignores them.

32:20 Yes. I mean, I have a lot of I have a lot of my clients um are uh are SEO

32:26 agencies. I have at least a dozen SEO agency

32:32 agencies that come to me saying, “I have this client. We don’t know what’s happening. We’ve looked at everything.

32:38 Can you figure, you know, figure out what’s happening?” And so I’ll come in maybe spend a couple hours uh you know

32:46 auditing you know audit you know auditing running you know six crawlers

32:51 on the site looking at various issues uh

32:56 and you know and and you know give the feedback to them um

33:02 so yes it’s definitely uh definitely something uh that’s comes

33:09 with you know comes with experience Right. Right. Right. Okay. Now let’s move to the next segment which is more

Why Is Domain Age and History Important for SEO?

33:15 about the value and risk of domain names in SEO which again is one of your signature areas. Now how important is

33:22 domain age and history today? Does it still impact ranking?

33:28 So yes, I mean I think that you know as far as uh

33:36 if the domain name has been used for a long time, you know, if actually you know you could buy a domain name that

33:42 was registered um in n you know 1998 but never had a website on it. uh that you

33:50 know age and history uh you probably you know Google has you

33:57 know the search Google has known about that domain name for years but you need to train the search engines of what the

34:04 current content is and one of the issues is you know hey you have a website and

34:10 the domain name’s not very good an example this is a good example where you

34:16 buy a really good domain domain name, you know, and you spend, you know,5 $10,000 or more on a good domain name.

34:24 And what you need to do is train the search engines on that

34:31 content. I mean, and on your topic. Uh, you can’t just buy an old domain name

34:38 and just move everything to that and expect rankings to be great. Um, you

34:43 know, the problem is that you need to first warm up, I would say it’s kind of

34:50 like warming up email. You’re warming up the domain name. You’re you you know, put content on it. Do some PPC to uh you

35:00 know to make it some land you put some landing pages on it. Do PPC to it. Get a

35:05 little traffic going. Uh make sure that you know put it in verify it in Google

35:11 Search Console. make sure that domain name is does not have any spam issues or you

35:18 know is not a burned domain name etc. Uh and just you know start warming it up

35:26 and then you know time is on your side if you can wait you know a couple weeks

35:32 a couple months before you move. Um, I realize sometimes you just have to move,

35:37 but as if you could just at least start that rolling, put something on the

35:43 homepage that’s on the same topic as your topic. Um, and you know, that’s uh

35:50 issues that, you know, sometimes people, you know, people do, they just they move

35:55 um and there’s that, you know, then they see problems. Okay. Now, now let’s say

36:02 take another case. So let’s say somebody has a domain which is already there 10

36:07 15 years but they want to rebrand it and they buy a new domain and they forward

36:13 the old domain everything to a new domain. So for some time the rankings will come and they suddenly then go.

36:19 This doesn’t used to be the case before. Now this continues to happen a lot now

36:25 where you buy a new domain redirect old domain and everything to new. In a month the rankings will go up and you’ll say

36:31 okay the migration is nice and then boom one day everything goes off. So is this

36:37 a real problem and what do you recommend a solution when something like this happens?

36:43 Well, I think there’s some, you know, I think in that case, you know, a lot of cases, uh, there’s some freshness, you

36:49 know, and the freshness algorithm, um, you know, I think is kicking in where, you know, where basically, you know,

36:55 there’s certain craw, you know, Google has many different crawlers that do

37:01 different things and there’s certain and you know, they will initially see, oh, you know, even you know, here’s a brand

37:07 new domain name, new content, everything, you know, and they see that the freshness And there’s certain

37:13 crawlers and certain processes and the algorithm that they

37:18 you know that is u you know that that kicks you know that uh is evaluated for

37:24 and uh the freshness and yes I do you know I’ve seen domains they’ll you know

37:31 they’ll for first couple weeks um they’ll rank very well but then I think what I think is what is happening is

37:37 there’s other processes like like back links and uh some other things that are

37:43 then that are then uh that are then evaluated

37:50 um that then kick in with you know that that are not done every day. they’re not, you know, like they don’t evaluate

37:56 links, I don’t think, every day. It takes time. Um, you know, so that could

38:02 be one thing. And then I think there’s also, you know, there’s been some areas where we have seen evidence of, you

38:10 know, quick, you know, clickth through um, and clicks. And so I think part of the part of the process, you know,

38:17 Google’s looking at their they have the freshness. they they say okay is this

38:22 website you know and how you know they Google wants to get some data about

38:28 how many pe you know how the clicks are going and um what people what real people think about this website or these

38:35 web pages and so they’ll do that you have the freshness and they it ranks well and if you do not have you know

38:43 people are not click you know when they click through they’re not spending some time on your site and they’re not

38:48 interacting and engaging and so forth, then you know there might be signals that they you know they’re leaving very

38:55 quickly when they see that web page. And so I think part of that is also you know

39:01 an evaluation um and you know so

39:06 I think it’s a combination um I think the freshness um to avoid kind of that I

39:13 think that doing several you know not just relying on organic but also doing

39:19 paid you know paid traffic and paid search um paid social u and doing some

39:25 other marketing things that will drive, you know, continue to drive traffic to

39:30 those those, you know, to those pages. Um, I think that will, you know, help,

39:36 uh, obviously, you know, new links to the pages, um, new, you know, new mentions of the brand and so forth, uh,

39:45 you know, will also help. Okay. So it’s it’s it’s just that uh um

39:51 are there is there that the content needs to be added as well new content or

39:57 is is that’s not something very absolutely necessary. So, one of the problems I I have run

40:03 into and and is that especially when you’re moving um to

40:09 another domain really is as is content and so there you

40:16 know so you will have a problem if you ch do too

40:22 many things at once with you know when you when you move to another domain name

40:27 um for example the you know if you change content you update URLs, you

40:32 change web design, you change the website, um, and you’re adding content

40:39 and and and changing things around at the same time that you move to another domain name. That’s going to be, you

40:46 know, a prescription for a disaster. I mean, that’s going to be a disaster. you need to actually,

40:53 you know, stop doing content and, you know, for at least a few days of maybe a

41:00 week or two and while you move. So you’re you you when you’re moving the

41:06 domain um needs to you know be it needs to be a domain

41:12 redirect is that you know that you move just to the new domain name um you know

41:18 and There is something about uh fresh you

41:23 know always adding fresh content. Um I have some you know some sites um of mine

41:29 every single day I go in the morning I go I check email and I then I do a

41:35 couple posts or a couple content and keep that site fresh and uh every single

41:40 day and it’s it’s u then when I have an important page that I really need to

41:48 rank well I need to you know perform well then because there’s a history of

41:54 every single day or you know every two or three days padding content and new

41:59 pages everything that uh I think that’s you know an important factor uh I you

42:06 know it tends to see I tend to see websites if you have not done any

42:11 content or changes for you know a few weeks um or even months that just you

42:17 see rankings just to you know just go down um over time Um,

42:25 you know, then you know, so the Yeah, I have one client who in, you know, we’ve noticed every single Monday if I go in

42:32 and I and I refresh the homepage with a couple small changes and I update the

42:39 page in WordPress, I publish the homepage again. The next day, you know, next two or

42:45 three days, that week, they they get a lot of leads um and a lot of calls. So

42:51 every, you know, I have a standing every week, you know, every Monday morning, I go in and I refresh their homepage. Um,

42:57 so I think it’s, you know, refreshing content and, you know, and and and so forth is is is very, you know,

43:04 important. Uh I’m not sure how it’s going to be interesting how that is

43:09 going to be seen by different AIs um with chat GPT

43:16 uh you know uh perplexity and so forth and with you know AI uh are they going

43:22 to you know be crawling fast enough that they are going to you know see the new

43:28 pages and content or or it might be the opposite where a piece of content that

43:35 is, you know, has been around for a long time, has, you know, good links,

43:41 is good authoritative content, um, is, you know, and is, you know, uh,

43:49 and and, you know, seen as, um, expert content. Is that content, you know, from

43:55 five years ago, you know, is AI going to still, you know, really push, you know,

44:00 push people to that content or is it going to be uh, you know, very, you

44:07 know, very fresh? Uh that’s going you know I think we’re still uh I think we

44:15 you know nobody really knows how it’s going to be dealt with and how it’s uh

44:20 and it’s you know it’s going to be you know the from the from an AI perspective. Now, we know, you know, you

44:26 know, Google’s um you know, Google’s AI, you know, um is is probably going to be,

44:34 you know, how they’re going to have all, of course, all all of their uh parts of the algorithm, you know, kind of uh

44:41 embedded in that. But these new, you know, chatbt and some of these, you know, new AIs that do their own crawling

44:48 and and data, uh you know, there’s no one knows yet. Yeah. And I think that is

44:55 where Google has advantage because they have uh of course so much data with them

45:00 and so much technically superior when it comes to crawling. I think the only thing only thing which they are missing

45:06 is how they present the data because still at those things they are lacking but the the information Google holds is

45:12 I mean humongous. So I think that’s where eventually Google should I mean

45:18 lead I I believe so. Yes.

Is an Expired Domain Worth Acquiring for SEO?

45:23 Yeah. Now, uh are expired domain still worth acquiring for SEO? And uh what are

45:30 the biggest red flags to look out for? Good question. So, um yes, I do really

45:37 do think um that you know if you can get uh you know there are you know domain

45:44 names that have traffic um and you know they’re that that are expired. I think

45:51 that you need to do um your you it’s it’s always going to be especially

45:57 especially I think also with AI it’s going to be more you know more important

46:02 um to get a really good domain name um and not one that is you know the shorter

46:08 the better but it if it defines your content that you know if that name um

46:13 look at the expired domain be you know if it’s if it’s a generic word or

46:19 several generic words and it defines your industry or defines your, you know, what your what the content is, you know,

46:26 is on that. Um, that’s going to be, you know, ideal and especially because, you

46:32 know, especially with, uh, bu, you know, going forward building a website, building a brand on that, you know, on

46:38 that keyword domain, uh, that’s just going to make it more valuable. Uh but

46:45 there’s a lot of things you know there’s I have probably you know I have developed a a list of 50 to 60 different

46:53 things to look for you know when you’re doing due diligence or checking

46:59 but the number one thing for SEOs is um and one of the first things I do you

47:06 know do if I you know I look at a domain I look at the back yeah I look at the back links I look at the um in Majestic

47:13 I look at the historic backlinks because you know you know because uh but

47:21 the f I also look at the f you know the fresh backlinks um and which is uh

47:27 essentially the the links that have been seen you know in the past 90 days or you know what what are the links that are

47:34 there right now okay I look at anchor text

47:39 okay that’s the number one thing um that you need you as an issue before you buy

47:44 any and I have been I’ve been burned before and um I bought a do you know I

47:51 bought a domain that had you know six that looked like it had six to seven million back links and um it was a you

47:58 know looked like a great domain and then I realized I must I got to look at the

48:03 anchor text of those links because what happen what actually happens is um

48:09 you’ll see you’ll find um a great do you know like a dot great.org domain name.

48:16 Okay. It was an organization um not you know nonprofit and for you know for many

48:23 years. Um it’s got a you know it’s it’s uh you know it looks like it has a lot

48:29 of you know really good backlinks. Um it looks like it has you know a lot

48:36 of good domain authority or trust flow or whatever metric you’re looking at. Okay. looks like the perfect great

48:43d omain, you know, SEO domain. Problem is is that here’s what happens

48:50 is is that domain name, you know, did not uh the domain name expired maybe two

48:58 years ago. Okay. Okay. And somebody bought it, right? Okay. another SEO or

49:05 Black Hat SEO bought that domain and they did they they used it and it is um

49:13 and you know they you can see that the the backlinks anchor text the a lot of

49:20 the a lot of the anchor text even though it still has these really good authoritative backlinks really good

49:27 backlinks but you will see anchor text in there that is totally off topic like

49:32 it maybe is casino links or anchor text or it’s uh you know I talk PPC porn

49:39 pills or casino links okay it you can see the back if you know you’ll see the

49:47 uh you’ll see the anchor text of the of additional links and then what you’ll see is even though it has all those

49:54 really good backlinks it’s you know from other companies or other you know it looks good but you can by looking at the

50:02 back link the anchor text. You can see if that was expired before, somebody

50:07 used it and they burned the d the name. They burned it. And the reason why it’s

50:12 expiring now is because it’s a burns domain. And then you then go and take it

50:20 and and you know yes if you go buy it and I

50:25 did I bought you know I bought the names and then you know then uh then I

50:31 immediately put them in search console to see if it had any traffic or clicks or anything. And yes, and the all the

50:39 traffic and clicks were all from uh it, you know, had lots of traffic and

50:44 clicks, but they were all from, you know, ranking for keywords that were completely different, you know, casino

50:50 links or some kind of, you know, something, you know, um that was completely off topic. So, okay. Um what

51:00 you know, so that’s one of the first things to look at is is, you know, is the anchor text. Uh

51:08 okay. Now uh does domain extension.com versus.aii versus.xyz

Does Domain Extension Really Matter?

51:16 matters to Google algorithm or is that just a branding decision? Now

51:23 there are certain you know there’s I’ve done some I’ve continued to do some you know SEO testing on them. Um and you

51:32 know there is u you know there’s an example of uh you know different you

51:38 know I know and I’ve tested this I know that key Google looks at the keyword in

51:44 the be you know beginning of the URL and at the end I’ve put up I’ve put up uh

51:51 websites and brand you know brand new brand new domain you know and that

51:57 keyword is only in the URL um and or in only in the domain name and

52:04 I put completely different content. Never mentioned the keyword. It’s only

52:10 in the domain name. Never mentioned it anywhere in links or anywhere on the website and uh and it ranks for that

52:18 key, you know, that keyword because it’s in the domain name. So, Google

52:24 really does look especially, you know, it’s very good for Bing. Bing really

52:29 likes the keyword and the domain name. Um, Google looks at it um and you know

52:35 they definitely see it. Um, there are certain, you know, when it comes to

52:41 crawling, there are certain tldds that Google just loves to crawl faster and

52:47 they will crawl and index your pages faster than any other um.xyz

52:53 those domains, they Google just tends to crawl and index those pages much faster

52:59 than any other tldd. uh and.org was very slow uh crawling and indexing the pages

53:08 um because they just um it took you know uh a week

53:14 or two to get those pages but within 24 hours all the pages on the xy.xyz XYZ

53:20 domain. Um I think that you know now um you know

53:25 the new TLDDS they were really the new TLD they were launched basically in 2012

53:31 and 2013. So we’ve had so many years you know over 10 years that these new

53:37 keyword domains have been around. Uh, I know that you will get a better quality

53:44 score in Google Ads if you have your keyword in, you know, in the if you’re

53:50 using, you know, keyword.com or keyword uh, you’ll get a better

53:55 better quality score if you use PP, you know, in Google ads. If you use keyword.keyword

54:02 u if you do not use the.com u you’ll get a better quality score and you’ll pay less for for Google ads. Uh

54:11 okay it’s only really good you know as far as for Google ads. Um but there’s a

54:16 lot of good marketing agencies using agency or marketing in their in their

54:22 you know in their TL. Uh right. The question really now comes you know and

54:28 they can rank very well. You do just the ba you know the every you know the basic

54:33 things I mean just you know good branding good uh you know good content

54:38 uh you know good crawable site you know you get the links um and you know it will

54:46 you know rank just as well as any other uh you know any other TL. Uh there still

54:52 is a difference between um.com and.ca andin for India. Um I

55:00 really do recommend I mean if you have you know you’re you’re targeting India

55:05 for example you I would go within

55:11 um you know all day if it’s you want international traffic probably.com. It’s

55:16 going to be interesting though as far as we do we are seeing Google is going to be shift moving um everything to do com

55:24 though um you know their google.ca CA Google do you know Google do.co.uk

55:32 UK. Um, everything is going to shift to.com. There’s not going to be a

55:38 different version for different countries, um, of Google. Everything is

55:43 going moving to google.com. Um, and we’re going to, you know, see,

55:49 and that’s going to be, you know, a change. Um, I think that, you know, if

55:54 you had like for Canada, if you had, you know, a.ca CA domain it would rank very

56:00 well in Google Canada but not Google.com or you know from US or from India or for

56:06 Australia or from you know UK. Um

56:12 you know that’s going to be an interesting change. Um I I have seen a

56:17 very big change um in the past five years that uh even in in the UK you know

56:24 in the UK and in Europe a lot of a lot they are pref now preferring to go to

56:30 com um rather than

56:35 um now you know when I was at Brighton SEO uh you know just recently I asked

56:43 just every you know everybody body um that I saw that um you know was from UK

56:50 or from Europe. I asked them when you launch have a client or when you launch a new website do you tell you know tell

56:57 them to go use a go to UK or do you tell them to go to.com and they all said

57:04 everybody they all said u.com is everybody is you know they’re they’re

57:11 ditching their.co.uk UK are leaving that um and you know and launching um even if

57:18 it’s just the target audience is Europe they do they they’re going to com

57:25 has a big a big shift right right now

What Are the Current Trends and Google Updates?

57:31 let’s talk about the current trends and of course uh the Google evaluation and I mean let’s pivot to what’s happening

57:37right now in the industry with Google constantly tweaking its algorithm what updates or change do you think SEOs are

57:45 underestimating? You know, I think they’re not looking at entity SEO. I think that there as a very

57:52 big you know as a overall concept you know SEOs are still so many I talk to

58:00 even you know even some that I you know that I respect from because they’ve been

58:05 in the industry they don’t realize that uh there you know they’re still focused

58:11 on what I call keyword SEO they’re still focused on we want to rank for this

58:16 keyword and so we will put you know and they’re con you know keyword keyword in the title tag, keyword in the H1, the

58:23 meta description, mention it a couple times on the page, make the sure the

58:28 image, make sure the uh image has an alt tag with that particular keyword on the

58:34 page. And that’s I call keyword SEO. Um

58:40 it’s just not you know, I have not been doing keyword SEO for

58:45 uh you know, three three or four years now. Um, I do what I call entity SEO and

58:53 which is a completely different, you know, uh, I still do my keyword

58:58 research. I still know, okay, I want to rank for this, you know, and get, uh, in

59:04 the in this for this particular keyword. I still start with a keyword, but when

59:09 I’m doing content or when I’m optimizing content, I’m optimizing for entities.

59:16 And um entity being any entity was would be any wiki any page that is a Wikipedia

59:23 page uh a person a place a thing um a concept

59:30 uh you know there’s so you know there’s entity anal analysis uh

59:37 that you can do uh and basically it’s it’s think of it as when you make a page

59:44 about this topic What would the visitor to that page,

59:49 what would they expect to see? You mentioned um let’s say it’s a, you know,

59:56 a page about um real estate or u home inspection or inspe, you know, and some

1:00:02 kind of uh service. Um, you would expect to talk about you see, you know, real

1:00:08 estate, uh, home, house, uh, you know, property,

1:00:15 uh, inspect, inspector, uh, right? Um, you know, appraisal, all

1:00:22 of these keywords that are related are semantically related to that topic.

1:00:29 Okay? And if you know if it comes down to especially in now with an you know

1:00:35 we’re dealing with AI uh they’re looking at it’s looking at the content and

1:00:40 saying okay is does this page does this page have better content or does it

1:00:48 mention all the entities or more entities or may you know more topics

1:00:55 than another page and that is really the question and that’s why all my when I do

1:01:01 entity SEO and optimize for entities on a page I’m seeing result very good

1:01:08 results um especially in uh you know the sort of features and AI overviews

1:01:14 whereas I get a page and there are certain entities or topics that I were was missing and I add those in to the

1:01:22 page you know optim you know optimize the page for entities and I’ve seen big

1:01:27 jumps you know from month to uh that you know of of sites that are

1:01:34 you know gi overviews because because of the entity SEO not because of I mentioned you know

1:01:42 the keyword 101 that comes on the page and bold and italics and and so forth.

1:01:48 So do you use any uh uh any software for you doing entity SEO? It’s all just

How Do You Implement Entity SEO?

1:01:55 manual. So yeah, so um I you know I I do the

1:02:00 keyword research. I do you know watching rankings, watching topics and so forth in SEM Rush. I use SEO Rush a lot. Uh I

1:02:09 do use inlinks a lot. Inlinks has a uh does you know one you know I use inlinks

1:02:16 because of the fact that I like that uh it does the internal links on a site

1:02:22 because of uh relevancy and it makes it

1:02:27 automatically makes a link based on entities and based on the it’s a re you

1:02:32 know the relevant keyword text pointing to another page the internal page u and

1:02:38 then they have you know some entity analysis where essentially what it will do is you

1:02:44 put in a keyword uh that you want to rank for, but it will search it it

1:02:50 searches the top 10 results. It pulls all the entities that all those all

1:02:55 those top ranking pages are currently mentioning and then compares it with

1:03:01 your page and says these are the these are the pages that these are the topics that you’re missing on the page. And so

1:03:06 there’s some you know then also it will do something uh for a new page it will

1:03:13 say these are all the entities and here’s the you know here’s all the ent every all the topics you need to mention

1:03:18 on that page. There’s other some other tools that do um you know entity analysis uh that are

1:03:26 really good. Um right now uh I’ve been using uh inlinks. Okay. And now uh how

How Will AI Affect Domain Values and Link Profiles?

1:03:32 do you think AI will affect domain values or link profiles in the next few years?

1:03:39 you know still we don’t know how much right now and I have not seen even any

1:03:46 tools or anybody that is you know there’s a big opportunity for somehow to

1:03:51figure for somebody to figure out um how AI is looking at links um and you know

1:03:59 and uh link data for AI we know you know that Google gives us links in search

1:04:06 console but there’s no search console for touch BT there’s no you know there’s

1:04:11 no there’s no link data uh you know for

1:04:16 for a lot of the AI so we don’t know even if they’re even considering links

1:04:24 at all um and and I haven’t see that’s you know something that somebody could

1:04:31 really you know look at um as far as domain names I think that there’s

1:04:37 I think that it’s definitely definitely um going to be more you know more value

1:04:42 you know more valuable um domains you know especially the you know keyword rich domains or you know shorter um very

1:04:51 you know category defining um domain names uh are going to you know going to

1:04:56 be uh more valuable and especially as you

1:05:02 build your you know as you put content on there and you build your brand that there you know that uh and you’re you

1:05:09 know you’re building a brand on on that particular domain name you know you’re getting me you know mentions I think

1:05:16 that AI is you know uh we look you know we mentioned links but I think what’s

1:05:21actually probably going to be more important is brand mentions mentions of your brand the traditional you know we

1:05:29 would get media we look at oh we’ll get a you know we get mentioned on CNN or

1:05:35 you know or or you know some kind of really or or you know BBC you know

1:05:40 mention it does an interview of us and they mention our company and my name but they don’t give me a link that has

1:05:46 always been the problem it’s like you get mentioned in the media news and you get all this you know traffic and and uh

1:05:54 you know you get you know famous because you’ve been mentioned in the news but you never get a link to your website. I

1:06:00 think that’s um that’s going to be easier now because I

1:06:06 don’t think it you know AI is going to understand the that content and they’re going to

1:06:12understand that they mentioned your name and your company and that you know what’s going to be more important is

1:06:21 the brand mentions and your company mentions and your name mentions you as an author as somebody who’s interviewed

1:06:29 and the AI is going to see you as an expert because you were interviewed on CNN or BBC or something like that. Okay.

1:06:37 And that’s different. Uh, you know, I’ve always, you know, I don’t really care about a link because, uh,

1:06:44 you know, yeah, you it’ll be great to have a link, but honestly, uh, I would,

1:06:50 you know, I would rather now just because I think AI is going to

1:06:55 understand that content. I think it’s going to be more important with the brand mentions and so forth and then

1:07:01 also with schema markup going to be me you know looking at uh making sure that

1:07:08 search engines and AIS understand that your website and your brand and your

1:07:14 name is connected with you know these articles and this content using same as

1:07:19 and you you know in your in your schema and making sure they understand understand that

1:07:26 Okay. Uh well, uh I mean we overshoot our time a bit. So uh this has been an

Closing Off

1:07:35 eyeopening and thank you for unpacking legal risk and of course those examples where those domain suffered and of

1:07:41 course technical foundations and domain strategies that I believe so many people overlook. Uh thank you Alex once again

1:07:48 for giving me your time. It’s great to be here. I think um yeah,

1:07:54 you have some great questions and I could you know I could go on for hours

1:07:59 uh you know and and I’m always grateful for being you know allowed to share my

1:08:06 knowledge with others. I think that’s what this industry is about. It’s about sharing, you know, all the tips and

1:08:12 tricks and everything that we’ve learned um with other people and um that’s what

1:08:17 I like about, you know, that uh so many people in this industry are willing to share. Yes, I I completely echo your

1:08:24 thoughts. I myself uh I’m a great believer of uh sharing expands your

1:08:30 knowledge and of course your base as well. Yes. Yes. All right. And uh if you have

1:08:38 enjoyed today’s episode, hit that subscribe button, leave a review and share this with someone in your

1:08:44 and share this with someone in your SEO or legal team. This is Agency Insider Show. I’m Navit Koshel. See you in the

1:08:51 next one. Thank you. I’m just going to end our