Podcast With Terry Samuels

Proven SEO Schema Techniques You NEED to Know with Terry Samuels

Show Notes

Unlock the secrets to mastering SEO with proven SEO Schema Techniques you NEED to know! Join me, Navneet Kaushal, as I sit down with SEO veteran Terry Samuels, cofounder of Salterra Digital Services and mastermind behind SEO Spring Trainings. Discover how to use SEO strategies effectively, optimize your site, and understand the latest trends that can transform your search engine rankings.

Are you ready to elevate your website's performance? This video is packed with actionable insights, perfect for both beginners and advanced users aiming to improve visibility and drive more organic traffic. Learn about the impact of content, backlinks, and the power of schema markup on your rankings.

Stay ahead of the curve! If you're eager to take your SEO game to the next level, don't miss out on these invaluable tips. Want me to help you rank number 1? Visit www.pagetraffic.com for personalized guidance. Subscribe now for more expert SEO insights!

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

00:34 - Terry’s Journey into SEO

07:21 - Evolution of SEO Strategies

10:55 - Learning SEO: Influences and Mentors

13:43 - SEO Industry Evolution Over Time

21:35 - Myths in On-Page SEO

26:58 - Overlooked Key Elements for Websites

31:00 - Balancing Strategy and Creativity

31:46 - Content Clustering Explained

37:11 - Defining Your SEO Dominance

37:28 - Content Dripping Techniques

40:15 - Effective Internal Link Placement

44:17 - SEO vs. User Experience Balance

47:57 - Understanding Schema Markup

52:18 - Importance of Schema in SEO

54:29 - Terry's First Schema Project

57:00 - Schema Course Overview

1:00:29 - SEO on a Budget Strategies

1:02:48 - PR Stacking Techniques

1:10:14 - Inspiration Behind SEO Spring Training

1:17:19 - Future of SEO and AI Tools

1:24:12 - Favorite SEO Tools and Resources

1:28:51 - Reading Habits: Favorite Books

1:30:00 - Terry's Current Reading and Learning

1:31:10 - Where to Find Terry Online

1:32:55 - Outro

Transcript

Intro

0:00 welcome to the agency Insider podcast I your host NAIT kosan and today we are

0:05 joined by ter sbl our veteran Su expert and co-founder of Sala Digital Services

0:11 chry is also the Mastermind behind Su spring trainings a major Su industry

0:17 [Music] [Applause]

0:24 [Music] even thank you thank you for having me

0:31 happy to be here yes so let's talk about a little bit about your background and

Terry’s Journey into SEO

0:36 experience for our listeners uh so that they can connect so can you tell us about your journey into SEO and how you

0:42 founded Sal um sure well our agency saltera is 14 years old I was a I've been a soft

0:50 software developer since 1990 so a long time um I took a break from software and

0:56 went into flipping houses and doing all kinds of stuff came back into the agency

1:01 life 14 years ago and um I was Heavy intoed development you know that was

1:07 back in you know HTML CSS days Dream Weaver you know all that kind of fun stuff and then about three years after

1:15 starting that I had one of my clients come up to me and ask me to look at this thing that she was paying for every

1:21 month um and I didn't even know what SEO was or even even having a thing we kind

1:26 of knew about optimization but it wasn't with with any direct reason it was just

1:32 more to make maybe the website more functionable or something like that it had nothing to do with search Eng anyway

1:38 so I looked at it you know gave her a little bit of pointers and stuff really didn't want anything to do with it and

1:44 then I had another friend of mine come to me at church and said his website completely disappeared from the internet

1:50 and I was like oh okay this is going to be cool so this one intrigued me because I'm a technical guy so I wanted to dig

1:57 in and find out what had happened to this main you know everything this is right about when Google's first animal

2:04 came out and after interviewing him I found out he was buying back links like they were back then you paid 2500 bucks

2:11 and you get some porn links you get some gambling links you get some the the links just were that's what people did

2:18 anyways I really learned SEO from the negative side or how to get people out

2:24 of out of out of penalty or out of a problem so to speak and it took us 13 months to get him back and when he came

2:31 back he had literally over in 24 48 hour period thousands of keywords ranking so

2:38 I mean it wasn't a slow thing it was just like boom we finally got what we needed to get done I live and died in

2:45 the disavow tool that was the only tool that we really had at that time to go

2:50 after stuff like this so that was kind of like my journey into it and I was like okay well this is pretty cool so I

2:56 took him on as a client now to help him you know obviously with more ranking he was a big health insurance company and

3:02 and I just started doing other stuff for people around the church and you know found out I'd doing stuff for the church

3:09 itself and found out that I was pretty good at it and decided to go down that

3:14 Journey so about I've been doing it about 11 years I think solid you know and then I dabbled in it a couple months

3:21 before that but yeah I it's it's like a passion of

3:27 mine and uh so I know so this is around 2012 when the penguin update hit

3:33 everybody yep I lost I lost my sleep over some clients as well I remember that and I didn't even know what it was

3:39 you know I mean like I said I wasn't in that realm I was back then I was a hipa certified software developer so I was

3:45 doing a lot of HIPPA products projects and those didn't have anything to do with search or Google or anything they

3:52 were more membership type things but that was a passion that I loved in being in the medical space I don't even think

3:58 the Hippa thing Hippa apption a thing anymore but back then it was but it was interesting when I started to look and

4:04 see wow okay so you do have to get into this list of companies in order to get

4:10 phone calls and it was like okay that's pretty cool so that's why we kind of yeah stepped into it big time but yeah

4:17 the animal update that was interesting because I didn't see hardly any of that

4:22 after this one client until about a year later I started seeing more and more of it so it really seemed like it was uh

4:29 kind of like a blanket thing but the blanket missed a bunch of people so I was that was another Rabbit Hole I went

4:36 down to is okay why did this website get affected and this one didn't you know

4:41 what happened here and you know did Google just miss it or is it going to come back in a couple months you know

4:48 and so back then I Google obviously didn't have a bandwidth issue like it does today but it was it was interesting

4:54 to start to figure out going okay why is this and not this that's probably my favorite thing about seos you know why

5:02 is this guy ranking and this one's not I've done you know you hear the stories I've done so much for this and this

5:08 guy's doing nothing and he's ranking you know so that was that's the side of the

5:13 SEO that I really started digging into was you know why is one thing happening

5:19 compared to another and I built I built a network of about 50 testing sites so because that's what I was trying to

5:25 figure out I was trying to mimic why this website's ranking and this one isn't even as far as cloaking I was

5:32 doing a lot of cloaking back then just to see if I can get the same kind of movement I wasn't going after obviously

5:37 placement as far as first page I just wanted to see movement you know which one which one caused the movement in

5:43 which direction did it move and that you know the testing of it is where I really

5:49 jumped into SEO because that's how I started doing schema seven years ago um

5:54 because nobody was doing it so you know and that was all through my testing sites and going oh hey here's something

6:00 new I've never seen before let's go see what I can do with that so you do do do you have those

6:06 testing sites or other testing sites still around yeah I've actually got probably close to over a hundred testing

6:13 sites Wow Wow Wow for different things so obviously I've got testing sites for Ecom I've got testing sites for local

6:20 yeah I've got you know I don't do as much testing anymore as much as I used to but we still obviously I have people

6:27 send me their backlinks and want me to test test their back links and do stuff like that but it's not like a everyday

6:34 thing like it was you know four years ago so but they're all still there they're all still viable every time

6:40 there's a algo update I go look at a bunch of them that I knew did they get affected or not get affected I've got a

6:47 I've got a site that's just schema only there's no public content on it at all and so I always go check that one first

6:55 you know what happened with this one you know and it's amazing it keeps going up every Al go up

7:00 but it's just that's the kind of stuff that I like to see I don't pay attention to Facebook and everything and you know

7:05 as far as oh there's an update did anybody get hit well you know I mean it's that's such a broad question you

7:12 know you might not got to hit because of the update the timing might just be the same right yeah but right so over to the

Evolution of SEO Strategies

7:22 next question so now I mean you started that early what were some of the early SEO strategies that have drastically

7:28 changed over time and and how did you adopt to those changes I think well I think it's I think the changes aren't

7:35 changes as far as don't do this anymore or do this now type of thing I think what's happening nowadays is I think

7:42 obviously I've been on a Content train for a long time I think content is going to be not just today but in the future

7:48 the most important thing so the challenge with backlinks and I'm a backlink guy I've been selling backlinks

7:55 for you know eight years but I see the problem with backlink now is the time it

8:00 takes to see results where it used to be able to test a backlink and do the 30-day maybe 45 day rule to see

8:08 something now it's more like three or four months because of Google's

8:13 bandwidth problem they've got a problem and if people are not paying attention to the bandwidth problem and how often

8:19 we get our websites crawled you need to be watching and trying to figure that stuff out because that's our biggest

8:25 hindrance right now and that's why we can't tell clients hey I can rank you in 3 months not anymore now it's 6 to 9 to

8:33 12 mainly because we're fighting for spots you know when I did you when we

8:39 were in Myrtle Beach together I just did research the day before my presentation and you know back then what was it like

8:45 three or four weeks ago it was a website every 3 seconds and or every three minutes now it's a website every one

8:52 minute I just checked yesterday so that's how much content's being put into

8:57 the system and Google's got to do something with it you know and and the

9:02 other search engines we talk about Google you know because of the grill in the room but we all have to start paying

9:08 attention to that so I really think that's why content because I can see changes in content much quicker than I

9:14 can with backlinks and so that's why I think content being PID well the last

9:19 what 75% of the last updates over the last year were all content Rel right you know we had eat we had eat we had

9:26 helpful content we had all these type of things and so now people have with

9:32 content but yeah so I think that's the difference and content was important you

9:38 know three or four years ago but it it Google didn't need as much to make a decision you know back then three or 4

9:44 hundred words on a page that was man you were gold you know because we were all paying for Content we were buying 15

9:50 bucks a page for four or 500 you know that's what we are all doing and you can't do content that way today

9:57 obviously you know just because of you know Google wants to see it's a Content machine Google wants to see content so

10:04 one of the biggest updates last year was the like content update people don't realize that if you have old blogs or

10:10 old pages that are three or 400 words kind of need to do something with those

10:15 because they're probably being ignored so and that's that's what I think and I think that's going to be the future of

10:21 SEO anyways is content you know I think backlinks are always going to be there but I don't think backlinks are going to

10:27 be like I don't see like my AG agcy I spend probably 30% of what I was

10:32 spending two years ago on backlinks you know so you know now we've just become this content machine and

10:39 we're getting backlinks through that so you know you write good content that

10:44 helps people that's you know siloed correctly you know in clusters you're

10:49 going to do some amazing things right right now so you started

Learning SEO: Influences and Mentors

10:56 that early did you have any mentors on influencers in the Su industry who help

11:02 shape your approach and how did that impact your work or impacted your I mean

11:07 the first two people I paid attention to were um Matt and Brad Ken the Ken brothers that I learned from them

11:14 because they they did SEO the way I thought SEO was at the beginning and I

11:19 thought SEO was the beginning is you have a product or you have a service and you do everything you can to get that

11:25 product or service on the first page then you go to the next product or service and you to the next product service um and they did that more on the

11:32 Ecom side they would buy a pallet full of stuff and they would rank that stuff

11:38 some black hats some you know all the different back then it wasn't really hats but and then they would go on to

11:44 the next thing and so but I think where it really changed for me was when Rand fishkin started doing his white Bo

11:51 Fridays I think that's when I started paying attention to because I was just dabbling when when I started I was doing

11:58 SEO for clients we were doing very well but it wasn't something I was looking to kind of build a division on and I think

12:06 start to watch the Whiteboard Fridays with brand that was probably the kickoff

12:11 point to deciding that I'm going to do an agency over this so and that was those are the three that probably had

12:18 the most influence on me at the beginning and then of course you know I meet Ted gidas Clint Butler you know

12:24 Kyle Ruth all these guys in the process and those were my jam I mean I'm a technical guy you don't you know you

12:31 want to talk design and colors that's my wife Elizabeth you know but and so those I get I really get into the technical

12:38 side of it especially things that we can do you know that other people aren't

12:43 that's like schema for instance but yeah it's a I think that's how I got my start and those are the three people that I

12:48 probably credit with at least getting me in the gate as pushing it out because we didn't really have much

12:55 in YouTube we didn't really have much in Facebook you know Facebook was so new most of my friends were reers cuz I just

13:02 came out of the house flipping industry so you know it wasn't really but I started finding people and then I'd ask

13:08 people like Ted you know hey where can I go learn more you know all this type of stuff and you know so I just I'm still

13:15 today in a machine as far as learning so I still people send me new software all

13:21 the time to look at and test and get my feedback and there's software out there that is just blowing my mind right now

13:27 it's just like wow this is cool so you know again that's that's kind of the technical side I don't care how the

13:33 website looks but you know if I can build a killer website pretty quickly that's going to rank that's my dam so

13:42 all right now how do you think how has the Su in Industry evolved since you started are they still same or with the

SEO Industry Evolution Over Time

13:49 Google changes has the two industry also evolved I think the biggest thing that's changed SEO is it's a very easy industry

13:56 to get into it's a very easy industry to start charging people money that is the negative side of SEO right now I'm I do

14:04 a lot of audits for a lot of people a lot of agencies and there's there's still a whole bunch of people that are

14:11 just either not paying attention or they're not doing it you know doing it right is one thing but doing it at all I

14:18 think is the thing that upsets me the most about our current industry is they're just not doing nothing they're

14:23 just taking the money and pocketing it you know and the you can you can stream a business owner along for three or four

14:29 or five or six or months you know as long as they're not paying attention and they're you're they're paying attention to the PDF reports that you're sending

14:37 you know you can make some decent money without really helping anybody and that's probably my biggest pet peeve is

14:43 you know stop hurting people obviously but then I do think that I think Facebook and social media has done a

14:50 negative plant for SEO um I think people are relying on that information without

14:57 testing I think testing is kind of gone away to the Wayside there's still a bunch of people that test that I know we

15:04 all have our we all have our conversation together but some of the stuff I see in some of these Facebook

15:09 groups I'm just like no no no what the hell are you stop and then all of a

15:14 sudden you're in an argument with somebody that just you know what the hell so I think I think people need to

15:20 get if you're serious about this business you need to get out of the groups and you need to have at least at

15:25 least your own site that you're testing on you know build own website build one

15:31 you know and go out and rank it you know figure out how to rank it and then but don't all of a sudden assume because you

15:36 rank one you can rank others because they're all different you know so it doesn't matter you can have 15 plumbers

15:42 but if they're in 15 different cities they're all going to be different right and that's the biggest thing but I do think the biggest things that's kind of

15:49 changed is that that it's the education that's out there good or bad I think is

15:55 the big difference people just need to figure out who to follow what videos to

16:00 watch what groups to join and then you know again test stuff and I I'm doing an audit right now and I'd tell you what

16:07 this agency needs to be fired I mean just who else are you doing this to is my next question you know because

16:13 they're hurting these people these are people that are trying to put food on the table for their families and you know and I think that's the biggest

16:20 thing is if you don't have that compassion to help people in this business you're going to hurt people and

16:25 that's that's the biggest thing I'm against I think that's the biggest change and going forward unfortunately I don't see it changing because again it's

16:32 a very easy industry to get into you can pop up and get a business card and a Facebook page and a basic website and

16:39 say hey I do SEO you know and charge four or 500 bucks to start out I mean

16:45 it's just it's a really easy system to get into but and I get that but if you don't have a if you don't have a plan

16:52 and your goal is not to improve your business and your businesses you're working for then just stop just stop you

17:00 know it's It's upsetting especially when you got to be the one to tell this business owner that just spent $50,000

17:06 the past year that I've got to not only undo everything they've done because it didn't do any good or even cause more

17:12 harm but now I've got to charge them for that you know so a lot of people that

17:18 come to me I've got to charge them just to get them back to zero now we can start ranking you know and yeah and a

17:25 lot of people don't realize it takes 10 times as long to fix something than it does to do it right

17:32 so especially if your website's so bad that Google hasn't even been there in months then how are you going to change

17:39 that and what are you going to do to make sure hey Google not only come back but come back and see all the changes

17:44 and difference as we are now it's not a website with 10,404 errors and all the

17:49 other things that we see but I think bad SEO is the worst thing about our

17:55 industry so and of course as everybody said says a lot of people claim they have done but if you check when was this

18:02 same strategy when have you implemented it somebody would say never and somebody say maybe two years back so nobody's

18:09 current and they're going to be selling those so I I come across a lot of those daily Muses yeah exactly and we and and

18:15 the people like you and I in this industry that's unfortunately we're typically the one that has to give the

18:20 bad news you know and sometimes it's not fun you know I mean you know I had a

18:25 lady come to us for for SEO and she just spent 35,000 on a Shopify site and I'm

18:32 just like you know I can help you but it's not going to get you the help that you probably really want with a

18:38 different type of platform Shopify as good as it is is still very limiting on the technical side you know and that's

18:45 where I I look in the technical side I don't look at the other stuff and so if I can't manipulate things that I know

18:51 Google wants me to manipulate you know and try to do some secondary stuff to make up for it again I just think you're

18:58 swimming a stream that's you you're fighting current so to

19:03 speak I love Shopify but unfortunately we have to have those conversations and

19:09 and some of them work some you I just set the expectations and say yeah I can help you but so I don't I don't I don't

19:15 fluff things I don't powder coat things it is what it is so you know if you want me to help you I can help you but if

19:21 you're on a platform that limits my help then we just need to know that up front you know

19:29 yeah so Shopify is just one example there is another example when people will come up come up with the sites with

19:35 the rendering issues the site won't even get cashed won't get render and they will keep on expecting us to do the

19:40 magic and those server side rendering SSR nobody would have an idea how to fix

19:45 it they just built it and now it's super expensive to fix it oh yeah 100% you

19:51 know a lot of people don't in funny little story I was when I started out in this business I was meeting people local

19:57 I got into the BN groups and all that type of stuff um and I'm sitting at Starbucks with a new client of mine you

20:03 know doing the onboarding I've got a very specific onboarding process but I'm sitting there and I'm listening to this

20:09 guy behind me that's selling Squarespace sites and you know he's talking to this you know this young lady there telling

20:14 her how great this squar space and stuff is and I just I don't know why I typically don't do that I just handed

20:19 her my business card when I walked out and I said give me a call before we make a decision because a lot of people don't realize a lot of these platforms are

20:26 built on a subdomain system and they just redirect your your subdomain to your domain well if you look at the

20:33 source code and your name your domain is never mentioned in there it's just you know your your no domain.

20:39 squarespace.com that's a problem Google knows that and so you know I I've heard

20:46 they've kind of alleviated a little bit of that with Squarespace but most of these sites Wix Weebly they're all on

20:53 subdomain sites so look at the source code and see if this see if the code is

20:58 about you and not about the platform and that's the one of the fastest things I

21:04 talk to people about I said oh let's just look at the code whoa I'm not even mentioning here exactly that's the

21:11 problem you know it's a beautiful site I'm sure you built it on a weekend that's awesome but you know now you've

21:18 got to get the search engines to like what you did and and they know that they're not stupid you know I mean

21:23 they're they're just looking for signals so they can't read but they definitely can see all the domains they know if

21:29 it's this subdomain and redirects to this domain they know all that stuff you know so but okay let's talk a little bit

Myths in On-Page SEO

21:38 about on page SEO and we're going to go into silos and SCH so the as search

21:44 engine evolves what are the biggest myths in the on page se you would like to dispel for our listeners the biggest

21:51 myths that you need to well I don't even know if there's myths there's definitely things that upsets me so one of the

21:56 myths is is that you always have to have a an internal backlink to the homepage

22:03 somebody at some time taught this somewhere that if you're on your you

22:09 know if you're on a Blog and you're talking about the value of Wordpress and all of a sudden you have you know

22:16 WordPress web design you know internal link that goes to your homepage and you're sitting there and

22:23 you have these you have these on every page because somebody said you need to send every single inside page back to

22:28 your homepage that's probably the biggest mistake that I see is people doing that and people don't understand

22:34 that Google ranks web pages Pages they don't rank a website and so and I use a

22:41 couple different analogies so if I sit there and I just got this Tim magazine.com freaking backlink and I'm

22:48 going to send it to this inside page that has to do with this article is about that I got this backlink for and

22:54 now all of a sudden I'm sending that power to back to the homepage why' I do that you know why didn't I

23:02 have other internal links in there that had other things to do with that same type of topical relevance that would

23:08 help that link now help these pages and so I really get kind of frustrated when

23:14 I see things like that and I asked him I said well who told you to do this he said that's the way I learned to do it

23:20 and I said well okay we're going to teach you differently but I think the biggest myths are you know just throwing

23:26 up content and your content's going to rank I think those days are over automated content I think is death

23:33 personally I think if you're automating content and you don't have a human touch in between it I think you're really

23:39 going to regret that s situation and then another thing I think is a myth is that once your website's built you never

23:45 needed to add content again I get a lot of lot of audits I get even the agencies aren't adding content on a continual

23:53 basis and again Google needs to come back for a reason if you haven't updated

23:59 your website in a year what's it coming back for what's it you know what's it going to see when it comes back to your

24:05 website again it's probably now in the ignore list because they're just seeing the same old every time we go there

24:12 so I think those are I don't know if they're myths but um I do think that maybe misconceptions I would say yeah

24:19 misconceptions that would probably be the best thing and you have a lot of websites out there that are Power

24:24 Players search engine land search engine Journal that do everything wrong don't

24:30 go to those sites to learn SEO the only reason they're even up where they're at is because they're powerhawks they're

24:36 traffic Hogs they they get some traffic they're very old website stuff like that but don't go there and realize they have

24:44 no Silo at all you know they have you know I think I counted one article there

24:49 was there was 92 internal links outside that article you know whoa you know Joe

24:57 plumber don't do that be a little bit more strategic in your plan here but again it's you know that's the biggest

25:03 thing that I internal linking in my my mind right now is the most important thing in SEO flat out because the old

25:11 days of writing an article about web design and then having internal links to SEO internal links to email funnels

25:18 internal links to whatever and you've just not only broke your Silo you've

25:23 crushed your Silo then I think you're not going to get the results you think you're getting get you know so I think

25:31 that's the biggest thing I see and it's always old content we've all done it when I you know I tell this story

25:36 Elizabeth and I went to San Diego just to get away and relax it was a working weekend for me and I went to ctera site

25:43 my main site and went to my old stuff and sat there in total shock about the

25:50 way my old on page was from you know six seven eight years ago and I was like so

25:56 all weekend long I completely resoed saltera I got rid of

26:02 all the like content I you know purged pages that I didn't want anymore and it just had an immediate

26:09 result and so I kind of kicking myself but we always talk about agency owners

26:14 never pay attention to our own websites that's true we do now but I was just in

26:20 total shock you know because that's the way I you know that's the way I thought it it would work back then you know in

26:26 2015 is completely different than 20 you know 2024 is the way we thought what

26:32 worked compared to what actually works but yeah I think it's you know I think it's pretty comical when you go

26:38 back to the older pages and you sit there and go wow I had 150 words on this page with seven back links or seven

26:45 links out to other Pages like well this page is not only being ignored it's probably hurting me so yeah it's a I

26:52 just think people really need to start paying better attention to the to the content side right but yeah yeah for

Overlooked Key Elements for Websites

26:58 sure yeah you are of course known for your expertise in the onpage SEO what

27:04 are some key element that websites often Overlook I mean besides internal L we talked about I think that you know

27:11 probably the URL structure is a big one a lot of people don't pay attention to URL structure and that's actually the

27:17 first thing Google Sees and I think if you're either under optimized or over optimized it can have a negative effect

27:25 most of the time we see over optimized so if it's saltera

27:30 site.com saltera webd design you know spends 10 years in Gilbert Arizona well

27:38 do I really need the word Salter in there twice you know do I really need to you know pay more attention to you know

27:45 I didn't even include this keyword in this URL structure so I think that's the biggest thing is people need to pay

27:50 attenti especially with WordPress and it all started with or open source so because WordPress will just take the

27:56 title you put in there and that's your well that's your a slug and that that's okay you know but I think nowadays you

28:03 need to pay attention to what that slug says if you're Bob's Plumbing and now your articles about you know why Bob's

28:11 Plumbing is great in Dallas Texas you know now you've just mentioned Bob's Plumbing twice and you know all that

28:19 stuff so and of course back then it wasn't intentional when we were doing HTML we had to keep it below 70

28:25 characters we had a rule back then you know in the old HTML days we couldn't

28:30 have these 250 character URL strings Google wouldn't read them and so we had

28:36 to pay attention to the URL when we were building websites back then so it just seems natural to me but it is like the

28:44 second biggest problem I see with websites is URL structure so and it's

28:49 you know the under optimize is really can can get really bad because you want

28:54 to find out and make sure Google Google sucks at guessing and so you want to make sure that Google is guessing in the

29:01 right direction so one of the reasons I love spyfu and I have no affiliate with them but spy Fu I can go and see okay

29:09 what's ranking on the 10th page the ninth page eth page and now you'll start seeing huge jumps and drops you know

29:17 because Google's having a hard time figuring out where to place this stuff

29:22 maybe you've got two pages you know cannibalizing each other maybe you've got some situations going on you know I

29:29 tell people yeah paying attention to the first couple Pages you know page one page two is great but you're going to

29:34 get more information on page seven eight nine and 10 because you're going to see there well wow why is Google even trying

29:41 to place me for this term that's not even what we do well you better go to that page and see why it's doing there

29:49 and it could be from a nose about about with schema it could be you know other factors on our side because we you know

29:55 we do schema so well but you have to figure that out and saying okay well hey I don't want to go after this turn it's

30:02 too outside you know this thing so find out what's on that page where Google's making that guess and just go change

30:09 that guess but yeah I think that's the biggest thing people need to pay attention to is what where is Google

30:14 struggling you know why I see almost every website I see has an identity

30:20 crisis you know a plumber's website's a plumber's website but you know if you do other things that might go along with

30:27 plumbing but Google puts it in a different bucket you need to make sure that you're you know slab leak repair

30:34 you know slab leak repair goes under foundations it goes under concrete it goes I mean there's all kinds of things

30:39 that slab leak repair can go under you just make sure that it's understanding from the plumber aspect of it you

30:46 actually probably don't fix the popped up concrete and all that stuff but you probably fix the plumbing underneath and

30:53 I think that's where people need to be really paying attention to is so Google

30:58 understands your content that's what it's all about

Balancing Strategy and Creativity

31:03 requires a mix of strategy and creativity I know you you are not more in a creativity side technical but still

31:11 if you share an example where a creative approach helps solve a complex SE problem for one of your clients you mean

31:18 creative is like outside the box type stuff I would say strategy because

31:24 because SEO is no longer just like building links it's just not just two three things sticking boxes so it's like

31:30 creativity for example just an example if creativity in your example would be when you remove the back links on your

31:36 website when somebody goes to the web design section so that's kind of a creativity with the strategy did you if

31:43 an example of your client you did similar and got good results well the biggest thing we're doing nowadays

Content Clustering Explained

31:49 especially um as part of a strategy is we're doing more around clustering okay so when we look at content the old days

31:57 of saying hey Mr and Mrs client I said I'd give you four blogs a month well here's your four blogs you know one

32:03 about you know Plumbing one about you know drain laks one about toilets

32:09 whatever and so when we started looking at you know that's all good that's all

32:14 fine but when you start looking at the purpose of content what do I want this

32:19 content to do for me it's no longer a checkbox for a client monthly reporting

32:25 you know if it is you're going to get buried and the reason why I say that is because again it's all about not just

32:32 providing content but becoming an authority in the space so if I want my plumber to be an authority in the space

32:39 in tankless hot water eaters okay one of the big thing conversations we have with our clients just like you do is what

32:46 brings you in the most money that's what I'm going to focus on I'm not going to be focusing on the pennies I'm going to

32:52 be focusing on the dollars and so part of that almost every plumber they make a lot of of money in tankless hot water

32:59 heaters you know converting from a regular traditional hot water heater to a tankless it's a it's their biggest Roi

33:05 so we go out and we'll say through topical relevance and all the different things that we've been doing in schema

33:11 which now all of a sudden has become mainstream let's all right about topical relevance okay let's go out and do that

33:17 so we will go out Mr client and say we're going to write how many articles I think the last tankless hot water heater

33:24 cluster we did was 22 articles so we wrote 22 two articles all about all the

33:29 different variables and all the different topical relevance about tankless hot water heaters we linked

33:34 them all internally together and then we all internally linked them to the main tankless hot water heater page so you

33:41 basically build a hub and it was just crazy this is the first one that I'd sold I I upsell these to to my clients

33:47 so I upsell it sold it for 400 bucks to my my plumber at the time we started it

33:53 the tankless hot water heater page I think was ranking for like 16 keywords

33:58 you know very basic stuff not really ranking first position or anything which we weren't really going for First

34:04 Position the goal of the content cluster was to have that tankless hot water

34:09 heater page rank for more terms well after 30 days it was ranking for like

34:14 120 terms so it gained over a hundred new keyword terms that now goes along

34:21 with that so like and the biggest one that took off was the solar you know how

34:26 does solar and tankless hot water heaters work you know where should I place my tankless hot water heater so I

34:32 can take advantage of solar so we even did a secondary cluster just around

34:38 solar and tankless hot water heaters because we saw during that one cluster

34:43 that that that little term or those terms get more searches every single month especially for my you know this is

34:50 a Texas plumber and so you know that's it's all about stuff like that and so

34:56 you know we went in and we did a around that but anyways needless to say that he

35:01 actually even in Texas started out ranking the biggest brand for tlas hot

35:07 water heaters because we had four or five articles about different brands you know this brand specializes in this they

35:13 do very good in this they don't do so good in this and and it was amazing you know this guy now I think we're doing I

35:20 think we're on our seventh cluster with this plumber because he just uh he couldn't believe it and that's was that

35:26 was our ticket too because we'd seen this on our testing sites you know you know what do I do if I write five

35:32 articles about this one thing in different variables you know we knew we were going to see some keyword

35:38 cannibalization we knew that was there you know how do I internally link all of

35:43 them together you know because you don't want to use the same internal link another mistake I see people do you know

35:49 but and if you have an internal link that says you know solar works great with tankless hot water heaters and now

35:56 that link goes to a solar page perfect but what we're also seeing is that link

36:02 will go to another page that doesn't have anything to do with solar and so it it's like whatever but anyways when

36:07 you're talking about a cluster and you're talking about you know I call it local dominance you can really do a lot

36:13 of freaking cool things and this is all because of AI I could as an agency I could never afford this I would have to

36:20 charge him a thousand bucks for that cluster because we were paying 15 to 20

36:25 bucks per article right now with AI and with all the topical relevance tools

36:31 that we have we can specifically say well these are the you know 22 topics

36:36 we're going to go out and write 22 articles we're going to put them all through grammarly Pro you know we're going to make sure they're all link

36:43 together and all that stuff and yeah we just it's probably the biggest thing our content team does now I think we're on

36:49 our I think just in the month of October we're doing 13

36:54 clusters so you know that's and that's awesome cuz our like I said our clients are eating it up if our medical spas if

37:01 they want to do a cluster around Botox if they want to do a cluster around you know cool sculpting or they want to you

37:07 know those are the those are the kind of conversations that we love to have nowadays with our clients and saying hey

Defining Your SEO Dominance

37:12 look let's go after one thing what do you want to dominate where do you make your most money you know let's go after

37:17 that screw all this other stuff to just provide content to provide content let's go after some meat on the bone and get

37:24 you some you know get you some money yeah so that's my so when you talk about

Content Dripping Techniques

37:29 these clusters you said for example that you made 22 so were these 22 content

37:34 pieces made live in one day or you staggered it over a period of time y yep all one day yep we stopped drip feeding

37:42 about a year and a half ago when we saw the problems with indexing and so I would rather have when and you have to

37:49 adjust your site map my biggest thing is check your site map make sure your site map is set to last modifi most maps are

37:58 set to alphabetical and so your about page gets hit every single time but if

38:03 you do last modifi then it's like I said it's the last page you either added or

38:08 modifi that's the ones you want crawled so when Google does come back to our sites which we don't know how often I'm

38:15 assuming every couple weeks but you know even when they come back this stuff get index blah blah lots of whole different

38:21 conversation but we stopped drip feeding because I never want Google to come back on Wednesday and my staff is set to go

38:28 out on Friday well so especially when they're all internally linked together you want to throw them all up

38:35 there obviously that makes sense yeah out of so so of course these pages are going or these articles are going live

38:41 on a Blog section and let's say on a Blog section you have one page which would the main page would hold 10 or 12

38:47 articles and when you have multiple clusters those content gets pushed on

38:52 page 2 3 4 of the blog so does that uh dilute some authority of the CL l or no

38:58 no because well we use the the Avada theme that's the main theme we we use and one of the things I love about that

39:05 theme is I can select a category and hide it from the blog rooll so I don't

39:10 want 22 articles in the blog roll you go to blog and you read you know tank list tank list tank list tank list so yeah we

39:17 Ro we we hide probably 20 articles we'll show two no that doesn't do anything at

39:22 all as far as the blog role the biggest thing people need to remember is the main n sidebar nav footer nav are pretty

39:30 much ignored by Google pretty much you know they're not they're not going to find your new thing because of your main

39:37 nav and we've all done tests like one of the big tests that we always run is putting the locations thing up at the

39:43 main nav and listing your at least the locations you have your gbps at those seem to work better than especially if

39:50 it's a new city with a new GBP but we also write so much supporting content

39:55 especially a new location and a press release that Google has no problem finding that for sure so but yeah no we

40:03 we still want to make it look good from the public side so we still will hide a lot of that cluster but they're still

40:09 Interlink together so once Google hits one it's going to hit the other the other the other the other the other so

Effective Internal Link Placement

40:16 you know that's the biggest thing when you are building these cluster does the does which the placement of the internal

40:22 links does it matter do we need to do it from the paragraph one paragraph to because a lot of people come with this

40:28 confusion my link should be in the first par my link should be in the third line is this something real or no um

40:36 contextual links like sutera's rule is five sentences before the first link I

40:43 want Google to get an understanding before it now goes to the other page you know think about how a bot works okay so

40:50 you know and again this is something that you know and only reason I have this kind of opinion is just through

40:56 testing so if a bot comes to a brand new blog and it it hits an internal link and

41:01 that bot goes over to this internal link and you know my idea is I want as much as my content to be understood before it

41:09 links out so and we've played with this so and my rule or our rule in saltera is

41:15 we have one link to the main page the money page we have one link to another related blog whether it be plus or minus

41:22 and then we have one link to the GBP okay so that's our standard right there we also include FAQ and author boxes to

41:31 every single thing we do now so if you look at self ter site you're going to see my FAQ and my author box almost on

41:38 every single page and people ask why do you do that I said again Google's coming and crawling a page so one of the things

41:46 and one of the ways we have started getting people help Outside The Helpful content update is being that more

41:53 trustworthy more authorative you know exactly so and so by putting you

41:59 know and I don't say about saltera I say why trust saltera you know I don't want to tell you about us I want you to trust

42:06 us and so that's why it's on every single page so we all you know use an internal link to go to the about page

42:13 who who does that so I want people to see everything from that page and make a decision but yeah so they're all they're

42:19 all internally linked together there's different anchors for different purposes we actually pre-plan our clusters so we

42:26 know what anchors we're going to do on every single page which page those are going to Anchor to we know which anchors

42:32 we're going to send to the money page and then typically we'll do a press release when the cluster is done and

42:38 we'll start that'll start the whole process is I'll send a press release link to one of the Clusters one of the

42:45 start of the Clusters and let it start doing its thing but again I think that's the only way because we have such a

42:51 small amount of time for Google to crawl our websites that I don't want them to you know no longer do one article about

42:58 toilet leaks one article about a faucet leak one article about no more I mean

43:03 I'm we are so strict on how we write content nowadays we have two meetings a

43:09 week and just about content now um and we never did that before we were like everybody else we were spending you know

43:16 five to 10 grand a month on back links we were spending five to 10 grand a month on on content and you know when we

43:22 started figuring out what we can actually do on a more more scalable

43:28 system is the bad thing about backlinks and I'll never be a negative backlink guy but the same backlink that was 30

43:34 bucks a year and a half agoes 150 now and the back Link's not any different

43:39 you know it's probably lost a little bit of power yeah probably sucks more

43:45 exactly and so you know I I understand people raise prices when people raise

43:50 prices people like me get creative and we start using things like SEO Neo and

43:55 you know I love building web tws I have a whole staff that does nothing but web tws and we build out you know our own

44:02 link Wheels systems so we're pretty much niched down so so we're always constantly just because we have clients

44:09 in one space those clients in all the spaces get to take advantage of what we build on the back side

SEO vs. User Experience Balance

44:17 okay now what are your thoughts on balancing SEO with user experience and how do you find Sweet Spot between

44:24 ranking high and meeting user expectation I think there's a couple things so um one of the things that

44:30 we're very adamant about is making sure that we are paying attention to dwell time time on page bounce rate especially

44:38 if it's bouncing from a money page we didn't typically used to spend a lot of time on that a few years ago but one of

44:46 my big things nowadays is the very first thing we look at a client especially if the client's already get traffic is I'm

44:51 going after the CRO side I'm going to see how can I can how can I improve conversions on the traffic they're

44:58 already getting so if you're already getting a thousand hits a month and you want to rank better that's fine I'll

45:05 help you rank better but I'm going to try to get more conversions out that thousand hits a month and a lot of

45:11 people don't even look at that especially on our industry you know I've even had people tell me well all my job

45:16 is is to get them to number one no if you think that's all your job is then somebody's going to come up behind you

45:22 like me and take them because yeah your job's to get them number one but your job's to get them to convert your job's

45:28 to get them to call fill out a form you know the conversations we don't talk keyword rankings and with my clients on

45:35 our strategy calls we don't even we have a section of that if they want to you

45:40 know after the cluster talks but typically we're going after traffic conversions are we getting the right

45:46 leads are you still getting a bunch of spam you know all that type of stuff that more of the SXO which now we tend

45:54 to call so it's more about search experience optimization right exactly exactly it's got you have to look at

46:00 both you know you can't just say well look Mr client I got you from 300 hits a month to a thousand and he's sitting

46:07 there going that's awesome I'm getting no calls you know or I'm getting you know eight out of 10 calls or spam you

46:14 know and so when you don't have those conversations they really don't care what you did to get them somewhere they

46:21 just want leads and they want quality leads and so you know I tell people that I'm a brand builder I'm a lead generator

46:28 you know yeah SEO's a part of it but you know I I'll run paper clicks on most of

46:33 my clients and they don't even know it just because not only do I want the data the live data but I also want them to

46:40 start getting some leads because even though I told them it's going to take this long you always get those calls in

46:46 month three saying you know I've been paying you for three months and blah you know so you're starting to lose the

46:52 focus of the project and so you know if they're paying me two grand a month I'll take two or three hundred bucks and do

46:58 some very very sharpshooter pay-per-click probably Bing where I can freaking take

47:03 advantage of a platform that hardly anybody does um and it it always seems to be better that way and so I want

47:10 people just to leave me alone to do what I do and the only way to do that is to get them leads as quick as possible so

47:17 um whether it's through conversion changes and I'll tell people we need to change your blue buttons to yellow what

47:24 like trust me let's just test this you know and we'll change the buttons to yellow and all of a sudden they'll see a

47:30 15% increase in clicks you know you do lot of lot of A/B split testing as well

47:36 yeah all kinds you know and especially if I'm running ads you know I'll I'll I'll test the button colors on my on my

47:43 landing pages all the time and I'll say Hey you know Bob I'm getting really good luck with these green buttons let's

47:50 let's just test some stuff and so we'll do that and yeah I do that a lot so

Understanding Schema Markup

47:58 let's dive deep into the schema markup and content SEO of course you discussed but schemas can sometimes be complex for

48:05 beginners what advice would you give to someone starting with schemas and any go-to tool you recommend there's yeah

48:11 schema schema is one of those things that most people don't do because of the time it takes to do it um and we're not

48:18 talking plug-in schema if you've got plug-in schema and you say you've got schema you've got the same

48:24 schema three three other million websites it have you know you don't have schema what people don't understand about

48:30 schema is schema is a way in my opinion and it was designed by the search engines himself it's the only code that

48:36 they ever did themselves people need to understand that there's a reason for that and I believe it was designed to

48:42 organize the internet okay so you know I think at some point they knew how big

48:47 this animal was going to get and they were saying you know if we had a code that can say you know if I search Terry

48:53 Samuel's SEO and I've got a 100,000 results how can I bring a lot of those into one

48:59 spot so me as the search engine I don't have to go to all these different pages to find out about Terry Sams and so when

49:06 you look at schema that way and you say okay this page is about X I want to go out and find everything I can about X

49:13 and then here's the founder the Founder's you know Terry he's done all this other stuff he's got all these

49:20 things out there that he knows about and you know it's a way for Google to sit there and say d you know I crawl this

49:27 page here's all my citations on my homepage now there's you know 200 citations I automatically Google's

49:34 relating those to me you know they're still out there you know page five six seven wherever they're at on you know

49:40 citation land but I brought them all in so Google can find them Google can relate them to me to my brand that's

49:47 what I want and I'm giving Google more information in schema than I'm ever giving on the public side of the website

49:54 so and that's why people don't do it it's a time-consuming thing I've given away my templates I've had people buy my

50:00 templates I've done people have stole my schema from Saltera site and they just don't put in the work to make it work

50:08 that's the thing they still half asset and with schema you don't have asset you know I'm telling you it'll take a while

50:15 I've got a project right now I get hired to do a lot of schema for people I'm doing this law firm and LA I've been

50:20 working on it for two and a half weeks now this is a month project one month

50:25 you know but they've got 17 attorneys 12 locations you know so we're bringing all

50:31 this stuff into their Law Firm website and so that's what schema does so when

50:38 and you also have to understand too schema's in the head don't ever put it in the footer why would you put it in the footer but the schema is in the head

50:45 and I truly believe that if your schema gives enough information about the page they're getting R to crawl now it

50:52 ignores the crawl errors because WordPress especially anything PHP is

50:58 very very tough for web for search engines to crawl PHP is a dirty language

51:04 compared to like HTML where everything's just vertical so when you can have your

51:09 schema right in your head and now it hits this whether it be Thrive theme or Elemental or whatever Google's going to

51:16 have a better understanding of what that page is even though they're going to hit the same errors the same problems

51:21 because it's in the schema okay so and we've kind of proven this over and over again I've got an entire website that's

51:28 ranking in with just schema um including Local Pages including service Pages it's

51:34 because the search engines understand it you know I didn't tell it's you know it is the page but instead of putting the

51:41 content on the front side of the page I put the content in the schema and Google ate it up and I just did a net version

51:48 of it and I'm probably going to kill it CU I'm getting some keyword calization but I just CU my schema only site's 5

51:56 years old and so I did a net one about a year ago still had the same results but now I'm starting to see some

52:02 cannibalization that I just wanted to see if it would still kind of index and start giving me some you know some power

52:09 so to speak but yeah so I'm probably actually going to kill it this weekend I don't want to mess up my original schema

52:15 only site that's the whole thing so but yeah so I think it's again it's a way to

Importance of Schema in SEO

52:20 organize and tell Google more about the web page page they're getting ready to

52:25 crawl so and it's a way to build your brand it's a way to build your personal brand like after this one here this will

52:33 be a link I put in my schema I mean that's you know anything that you do that you can introduce Google to is a

52:40 good thing you know don't put negative in schema don't go put your one star review in schema but it's I think

52:47 that's that's why I'm so adamant about it because again you're providing a

52:52 piece of language that they definitely understand they wrote it okay everything

52:58 else we're just guessing you know I think we've done tests where I can put a gibberish thing at the bottom of a page

53:05 to see if Google picks up that gibberish thing sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't but when I do that in schema it

53:11 always picks it and quick so and so again that's why I think it's such such

53:17 a good system and you know the people that are doing it right I definitely feel are Leaps and Bounds above

53:23 everybody else and especially about the number of keywords you can rank for that

53:28 page like I said we were doing you know entities and semantics and topical relevance and schema way before it

53:36 became mainstream you know because we would do nose about you know we would do same ass we would do abouts and mentions

53:43 you know I would list my 10 my top five competitors and knows about in schema I would never do that on the public side

53:50 but Google knows that they're my competitors so why not put them in there this is who I'm competing with you know

53:56 so align me with them type of thing and so but I think that's the the reason why

54:01 you have to go and do the scheme of right is because there's a specific purpose for it if you just half ass it

54:07 you're going to have half ass results you know but if you take the the cool thing about scheme is once you take the

54:13 time to do it you really don't have to go back maybe every quarter and kind of

54:18 update some stuff that might have shown up or whatever minus article scheme article scheme is different but I think

54:24 once you have everything done then now you just keep moving on and just watch what that schema does for you so I've

Terry's First Schema Project

54:32 got all kinds of freaking examples that we've done with schema test I've been testing schema and doing schema for

54:37 seven years now 2017 it's my first schema project so and I just found it on accident I went to

54:44 schema.org and I literally spent a week in schema.org testing what I could add to it and back then schema.org used to

54:51 give you some templates to play with you know so you can you know and of course I'm a coder guy so it didn't frustrate

54:57 enough but when you miss a comma you miss a parentheses and you can't find the freaking thing so yeah it's a I

55:04 built a tool to help fix that but I mean I'm I'm really really passionate about

55:09 schema if people understood exactly what it does and what it can do for you and your clients he would be amazed and

55:15 that's why we do a lot of it for people and any tools uh you recommend for uh

55:21 any goto tools you recommend for SCH schema Creations or SCH schema testing for that uh well obviously the schema

55:27 schema validator for testing that's the only one I trust I don't trust Googles or anything else schema.org is probably

55:34 the best place to see what you can include in schema depending on what at type you pick you can include things

55:40 that you can in other schemas you want to play with that I mean Sal terasite people steal my scheme all the time it

55:45 is minified so you're going to have to know how to unminify it and no I won't tell you but I think the biggest thing

55:51 as far as tools is chat GPT is really good at stuff like this especially around AR schema because it's it's again

55:58 super basic that's all these tools are super basic but if you have a sitewide

56:04 schema you did manually and you have a service schema you did manually and you're just using chat GPT for article

56:10 schema that's fine no big deal but I think as far as you know there's some tools out there um you know content

56:17 Sprout you know in links there's some good ones out there that help a schema too you know so but I think the biggest

56:23 thing of the schema is the research you know you know as soon as you get a brand Google that brand see what's out there

56:29 about the brand you know and then we typically go four or five pages in and then we'll bring all those into the

56:35 schema you'll see when it starts to get kind of outside your search when it starts either not making sense or starts

56:41 bringing in other things but I think if you're a professional if you're a lawyer if you're a doctor you know all these

56:47 Professional Services schema schema has the most bang for the buck with

56:53 those okay um especially lawyers because there's typically a lot of stuff in the internet about lawyers and so you go out

56:59 and find it okay now any schema courses you

Schema Course Overview

57:05 recommend I have one okay that's good way to plug in right now yeah so I

57:11 actually I fought doing a schema course for a long time just because I really like I said I've given away my templates

57:18 at conferences and stuff and it it kind of gets disheartening when people don't

57:24 kind of use what you give them you know it's kind of like then what the hell would I even give it to you for type of thing you know but about a year ago I

57:30 started building a schema course and so I finished it like three months ago it's it's the most comprehensive schema

57:37 course out there it's like 15 modules 51 lessons but it's set up to where you

57:42 don't have to go through the whole thing if you want to just do Ecom schema there's an Ecom section if you want to

57:48 get into local there's a local section and I go into with videos walkthroughs I go into why you want to do one thing or

57:55 another and really just trying to teach people the thought process of schema you know so they better understand it yeah

58:02 it was so I I released it I really haven't promoted it that much just just mainly because you know I again I want

58:10 people to you know use what they buy you know I my JV Zoo account your J I got so

58:16 much crap in my accounts that I've boughten and never used so I didn't want I didn't want like that so so when I and

58:24 I've been teaching onpage class for two years now I have a class that I teach on Page live but part of that class is

58:29 schema and I had one of my students and said you know you really need to make a course out of this so I blame him for

58:35 doing it for making me do it but um yeah I would I don't recommend anybody I mean

58:41 Clint Butler's got another basic course out there Clint's one of my best friend he's probably the one that I've been

58:46 doing the most with schema him and I have done a lot of stuff together as far as testing he's in different niches that

58:51 I'll never be in gambling and rehab and those type of niches so so um you know

58:58 that schema gets pretty freaking serious in those niches so but I put the link in the

59:04 chat for my train right I will I will uh

59:09 I will share it with the once this uh goes live right I will do that but yeah

59:16 I think you know um just be careful with like most of the YouTube stuff is very basic um okay you know um you want to

59:24 stick around Json LD you don't really want to get into Micro Data and some there's three or four different types of

59:30 schema which I go into but the Json LD is the one that we have found that

59:35 Google Yahoo and Bing like the best and it's the easiest to work in so micro

59:41 datas I actually started a micro dat and it's it's okay for a developer but it's

59:46 not good for trying to teach a VA write it so but Json really

59:51 good but yeah if you're going to go down the road of schema it's I don't know I I personally think it's the one thing that

59:58 you know we can definitely do for a client that's going to have the biggest bank because all we're doing is

1:00:05 introducing a different code to the search engines that's going to give them more information about the page and it

1:00:11 can always be better that way um and we use it in a bunch of different variables

1:00:17 I teach people how to put schema and images you know I teach people how to put schema in web 2 properties so um

1:00:24 there's all kinds of stuff you can do with it not just WordPress or

SEO on a Budget Strategies

1:00:29 whatever now for businesses with a limited Su budget what are the priority schema elements they should focus on to

1:00:36 see a noticeable impact noticeable impact are going to be the top two it's going to be same as in knows about okay

1:00:42 so same as means just what it says if you're a brand and you have 10 different

1:00:48 back or 10 different links on the search results for that brand that's the same as knows about is now what this pay page

1:00:56 again what this page knows about so if it's a web design page it knows about

1:01:01 web design web development WordPress J rupla you know you can start naming them out you know um chat GPT will help you

1:01:08 with all this the biggest thing about nose about you know is that you don't want to include stupid I call it stupid

1:01:15 so yeah even though you're in web design you probably know about PayPal and invoicing and cash and checks don't

1:01:23 include all that stuff just keep it strictly with within that realm of

1:01:28 topical relevance so to speak and those are the biggest two the next biggest two would be dimensions and abouts which is

1:01:35 where you can include some of the entity stuff some of the you know semantic stuff because now you're getting into

1:01:43 excuse me now you're getting into yeah you know web design also mentions SEO it

1:01:49 also mentions internet marketing it also menes graphic design and those are entities around web design so yeah so

1:01:56 those are the four big ones but same as and knows about are going to give you the biggest bang for your book

1:02:01 especially around your pages if you do like I do I build stacks I build you know citations I do all this stuff so if

1:02:08 I build a stack for a specific service that stack stack links the same as is

1:02:14 only on that page so it's not a sitewide thing so be careful between sitewide and

1:02:21 per page sitewide is just like your 50,000 foot level you know so ER we're

1:02:26 in these 50 states we have these main Services we here's some of the awards we've won it's strictly on a brand level

1:02:33 then when we get into the individual service Pages or personal Pages then the scheme of changes but they stack on top

1:02:39 of each other so okay um if you go to one of my Local Pages you'll see like three or four different schemas stack on

1:02:46 okay okay now now you also talk about PR stacking before and of course can you

PR Stacking Techniques

1:02:52 share how this tactic Works in practice and why is it effective p stacking is one I'm again I'm a stacker I tell

1:02:58 people all the time things I think as far as link building and this is one I used to sell backlinks all the time is I

1:03:05 would try to teach people about how to stack backlinks you know there's a bunch of different ways but I'm typically a

1:03:11 brand is tier one a brand keyword is tier two and then a keyword is tier

1:03:16 three so we do three levels with insult ter and that happens in link building and it happens in press release the one

1:03:23 of the things that I was trying to figure out with press release I did this test about three years ago um because I

1:03:29 like the idea of press releases but they were kind of expensive the links that you would get would fall off pretty

1:03:36 quickly you know typically after about 60 days you probably only have about 30%

1:03:42 of the links indexed anymore and it was frustrating because at that time it took me a ton of because I was strictly a lot

1:03:49 of lawyers and medical so these press releases would take a long time to get approved you know a couple weeks from

1:03:55 some my clients and so it was the old frustrating part anyway so what I started doing is I started saying okay

1:04:01 well I want my website or the client's website to become the host of the press

1:04:07 release so I'm going to do a blog post so I do a press release blog post on my

1:04:12 site or the client's site and in that blog post I'm internally linking to the

1:04:17 pages that I want this press release to take advantage of plus the GBP plus I'm doing a GBP ined so once I have the blog

1:04:25 post post done and I have that blog post URL I'll go to a service AB newswire

1:04:31 it's typically the first one I go to AB newswire I'll now take that same press release I just built in the blog post

1:04:37 I'll copy and paste it into the press release in AB newswire and now I'll do

1:04:42 my anchors different so I'll have a branded anchor to that press to that blog post I'll have a branded anchor to

1:04:49 a GBP typically the long URL because I can manipulate that plus string and then I'll always typically have have another

1:04:57 branded anchor to either the homepage sometimes I'll send it to the main Blog Page sometimes I'll I've sent it even to

1:05:03 the sitemap page the HTML sitemap page but that's typically the way I start the press release so the reason why I like

1:05:10 AB newswire is I typically get the publish links within six hours yeah so

1:05:17 super quick especially if I do the press release in the morning but then I take that press release all those links that

1:05:24 get all those urls they have and I put them in a spreadsheet and I don't do anything for 48 hours but after 48 hours

1:05:30 I'll put in that title of the press release in Google and I'll see which ones showed up as far as power and index

1:05:37 well then I'll take those two links that showed up power you know whichever one I'm looking for I'm just looking for two

1:05:42 maybe three but then I'll go to like Ein newswire Ein newswire is I like them

1:05:49 because they're fast I don't like them because they only limited limit me to Three Links at all and that's kind of

1:05:55 frustrating but I'll do now branded terms so I'll do saltera web design will

1:06:00 be a branded term to the ab newswire press release link okay so um and I'll

1:06:07 do two of those links within the within Ein newswire and then I'll do one raw

1:06:13 link back to the raw anchor of just my homepage it's site.com and then once I get those

1:06:20 responses again I wait 48 hours and I see which ones are the top two and then I typically go to 38 digital 38 digital

1:06:28 is ry's best press relas out there hands down um and I'll go to ry's and these

1:06:33 will be exact matx so it'll be you know web design company you know we'll link

1:06:38 up to the Ein newswire one and then obviously it's stacked um and these all

1:06:43 have a map embed so by the time I'm done with a typical stack there'll be500 referring domains about that so I'm

1:06:51 getting 1500 embeds you know I've got 1500 links to the G BP typically the

1:06:56 long URL and the cool thing about it now is that my press releases now are

1:07:02 lasting over a year because they're all combined and talking to each other and I

1:07:08 can go back to that blog post anytime and I can change those links whenever I

1:07:13 want so I can manipulate those I can add another paragraph and add another link

1:07:19 or whatever right and then I typically will keep track of the top 10 links of

1:07:24 those press releases and I'll throw them over to my link side and they'll be building back links to

1:07:29 those whether it be web 20s or whatever I don't care web tws I don't care but yeah we're starting to see and then

1:07:34 maybe three or four months later I'll do just one more press release just to kind of throw in there and mix it all up

1:07:40 again but it's still an upsell you know it's it can be these Stacks can be

1:07:45 expensive I think about 750 bucks but you don't have to do a press release every freaking quarter now so you

1:07:52 actually save money in the long run and again it's an upsell for me I don't I always upsell but the whole thing is

1:07:58 with the with the press release stacking is we've really found it to help not just the location page but the gmbb

1:08:05 specifically you know and I've had people that are really big in gmbs I don't ever claim to be a gmbb expert

1:08:11 like some of but I've had them message me and say damn your Pressly stack really works and I said I know it is we

1:08:18 tested this over and over and over again and it's one of the first things we do like if I take on a new new client I'm

1:08:25 doing a press release on my Sal teror site and then I'm starting a pro I'm starting the process already so um I'm

1:08:32 going to AB newswire announcing the new you know the new strategy with this new client you know I've got their map in

1:08:38 bed my map ined I'm already starting the process so we the first the first month I can sit there and say okay now we've

1:08:44 built this let's strategize and figure out how we're going to do better with this and so you know yeah I I I think

1:08:52 anytime anytime you look at stacking things it's all how you connect them you

1:08:57 know one of the one of the biggest mistakes that I see one of the reasons I don't sell

1:09:02 backlinks anymore is people don't understand how to use anchors you know they think they need you know go out and

1:09:08 get 500 referring domains for this you know SEO anchor well you know is that

1:09:15 really going to help you if you only got 300 referring domains going to your homepage and now you have 500 referring

1:09:20 domains going to your SEO page you know is that really what you want to do anchor text diversity is a real thing so

1:09:29 but yeah I I think anything that I do is always has to have a return on investment so and that's one of the

1:09:35 reasons why we got rid of buying a whole bunch of backlinks because you know it was harder it was getting harder and

1:09:41 harder for me to show that this money that they spent again an upcharge had a

1:09:46 good result you know as far as quickness you know so when I have people order

1:09:51 back links from me now you know I tell them I'm like you probably won't see anything for four to six months that's

1:09:57 you might see something sooner that's great but on the most part we're seeing four to six months to see you know at

1:10:03 least a a backlink result of a normal back I'm talking normal backlink not something like you know petsmart.com or

1:10:11 something so we just overshoot times I'm just going to take few more minutes of yours I know but we let's talk about Su

Inspiration Behind SEO Spring Training

1:10:19 spring training I mean what inspired you to start Su spring training um we went I I this is this

1:10:26 goes back even to my house flipping days I used to do a lot of lot of talks and a lot of conferences and masterminds

1:10:32 around different things and this when I came into this business I mentioned Rand fishkin before I went to a conference

1:10:39 gosh it was probably six years ago now seven probably seven years ago um you

1:10:45 know I was didn't have a whole lot of money but this conference was very expensive only because I got a chance to

1:10:51 meet Rand fishkin that was why I bought this ticket um and it was kind of expensive and so um I went to the

1:10:59 conference I really didn't pay much attention didn't really care what the conference was I just wanted to spend some time and mainly just thank brand I

1:11:06 just you know because I really credit him for changing the way I thought about this

1:11:11 business and I love the way he teaches but um and so I went to this conference and again here and since you know this

1:11:18 is a long time ago there's no fault of Rand don't so Rand don't don't yell at me but he didn't realize there was

1:11:24 people there to meet him and he left and didn't we never got to meet each other or the people that bought this ticket

1:11:31 and so that was my first like SEO World Conference and I was like well that sucks you know it was in Dallas and so I

1:11:39 you know came back and you know I went to another one one that I was recommended from a friend of mine and I

1:11:45 went there and the conference was great but I didn't really feel like the value was there because a lot of times when

1:11:51 people think about conferences you got to think about the flight there the hotels the ticket prices the food I mean

1:11:58 it's a whole thing so just because you pay 1,500 bucks for a ticket it's probably a $5,000 conference when you

1:12:05 include everything and so I'm all about value and people that know me people that hire me that's one of the reasons

1:12:12 they hire me for is because I over overdo everything that's just the way it

1:12:17 is so I came back from this other conference so like I said the conference was fine but they didn't include lunches

1:12:24 it was very hard to go out and get lunch and come back on time I mean it was those were the frustrations and so I

1:12:29 came back and told Elizabeth I said let's let's do a conference and she's like really I said sure So we did the

1:12:36 first one we did I just knew a few people that I brought in to speak I didn't really know I know new Kyle rof

1:12:42 Kyle used to live by us you know Clint Butler obviously Marty Mar and so that you know Michelle yeah there's a gosh

1:12:50 there's tons of them anyways so I had a I had a two-day conference there were 65

1:12:56 people I think we had 10 speakers five a day and it was really cool so you know and everybody loved it we provided

1:13:02 lunches and not just lunches really freaking good lunches we provided a lot of networking opportunity and so we the

1:13:09 very first one was six years ago so this is our sixth one coming up so five years

1:13:14 ago but um it really started becoming a thing because the second year we did it

1:13:20 it was a little bit bigger I think we were still about 90 people or so the third year year Co hit and Co hit like

1:13:28 literally three weeks before our event was supposed to start and so we got we actually got an email from the governor

1:13:34 of Arizona saying they shut everything down I like okay and so we're freaking out

1:13:40 because now I've got and there was going to be 140 people there that year and so

1:13:46 the first thing I think of as a business owner is how the F am I going to refund everybody's money I mean you know we've

1:13:53 already paid for the hotel we've already paid for the caters we've already paid for marketing we've already most of the

1:13:58 money is gone and so and I just Elizabeth I were like okay well let's turn it digital we didn't even know what

1:14:04 that meant and so okay so I went out and I found a software that I could have up to a thousand people a day in this

1:14:11 software to watch conferences and so we took our two-day event and it became

1:14:16 eight days I had 72 speakers we had almost 800 people come through the

1:14:22 digital side it literally happened at the right place at the wrong time because of Co but people didn't have

1:14:29 anything else to do so I was contacting speakers from Australia from the UK you

1:14:35 know from you know good old Campbell over in Scotland I was contacting all these speakers say hey guys I want to do

1:14:41 this and everybody was on board it was one of the coolest things well that became like our reputation because not

1:14:48 only did we not give up and say F you to everybody but we turned it into

1:14:53 something that was it's still talked about today um I still think I own the

1:14:58 most recordings of the most speakers in this industry you know because I recorded them all and I have everything

1:15:05 and so um and so that kind of set us up so when we came out of Co the next year

1:15:11 we just did a little Mastermind because I was gunshot and I people know the story if they've ever talked to me but

1:15:17 it took almost five months to get $660,000 back from the

1:15:22 Marriott and you know because we couldn't on with it they actually tried to hit my AMX during covid for the last

1:15:29 payment and I'm like wait a minute here not only are you not getting the last payment I want a refund for it all and

1:15:35 we ended up getting it but you know 50 60,000 bucks for a small business is a

1:15:40 lot of freaking money to sit there and wait on so but we didn't give up we were

1:15:45 not going to freaking screw anybody that was my big thing and in my opinion we provided so much value that week that

1:15:54 people just now when we did The Mastermind the next year that sold out really quick is like 35 people and then

1:16:01 we did last year was the first year we came back big again or two years ago but yeah so it's the first week in May in

1:16:08 2025 it's in I don't know our specialty is is networking opportunities and

1:16:14 bringing in speakers that probably haven't spoken the US before and so so that's one of the things that we're

1:16:20 pretty known for so we've got some pretty good announcements we're going to start announcing them in about a month you know about middle of November the

1:16:26 committee is getting together next week to start talking about the final list of speakers we literally had over 80 people

1:16:31 want to speak so that's that's always always been a constant too is we get a lot of people that want to speak event

1:16:38 but yeah it's a in my opinion I think it is the best SEO event in the country there's rock stars which is kind of like

1:16:45 our sister event we kind of do things combined together that's in Vegas here in about three weeks and we always make

1:16:52 sure we're keeping them separate enough so people can attend both of they want but yeah that was my whole thing of why

1:16:57 I wanted to start it I it's all about value I tell people that if you don't get what you came to the conference for

1:17:03 tell me and I'll get you in touch with the person that I can help you so um I've got a very very strong Network it's

1:17:10 a very inspiring story as well of course having 800 people is massive of course

1:17:16 exactly okay now uh just final sections so uh I'm going to talk a little bit

Future of SEO and AI Tools

1:17:22 about the future of su and the tools what are your thoughts on using AI tools for Content creation um I think AI is

1:17:30 revolutionized content creation um and we're not talking just words we're talking images and video in the whole

1:17:36 nine yards but I do still think that we've got a long way to go to be

1:17:42 automated so to speak I still think that I believe in personalizing whichever AI

1:17:48 tool I'm using to the brand or to the person or whoever I'm writing about the main reason is is because I want people

1:17:55 to understand who this is talking you know I want it to be talking from this

1:18:01 medical spa owner and not some machine I do think that it's going to get better I

1:18:06 do not think that it's going to replace search it's one of the things that I haven't seen it yet and I look at people

1:18:12 around me that don't have anything to do with this business and how they're searching they're still searching the same way they were year two three years

1:18:19 ago you know I tell people the story about voice search voice search was supposed to take over the world Hit

1:18:24 never it never did um you know again I think AI will change the game but I

1:18:30 think if you utilize AI the right way kind of like what we're doing with clustering and you know writing content

1:18:36 that not only helps people but helps you know become an authority for your space so you don't have to so that user

1:18:42 doesn't have to go to another site and another site and another site um I think with AI you can do that and you can do

1:18:48 it very successfully sotera we haven't dug into the image side of things yet at

1:18:54 least not as a scalable thing just because of time you know so from an agency standpoint you know we're looking

1:19:01 at different tools you know we've used we like content Sprout Zim writer there's all kinds of stuff that we like

1:19:06 and use but it still has to have that human touch so I you know especially I

1:19:12 don't like to get the questions you know hey what's this in there about me this is especially about when you're talking lawyers and medical anything in the you

1:19:20 know your money your life space you know you really have to have that human touch because it's still an inaccurate scraper

1:19:27 you know if you just do a broad scraper top 10 plumbers in Dallas or 10 plumbers in Dallas even not even top it it's

1:19:34 pretty good about the first five but then it starts to struggle because it's just scraping so but I think if you

1:19:41 introduce it to what it's scraping and who it's scraping for is the big difference are there any particular new

1:19:49 AI tools you are excited about um zista Z ZTA is probably my new tool that I'm

1:19:56 excited about it was given to me to test and try and it actually comes from the same person that bought topical

1:20:02 relevance. comom which was my go-to tool to teach people how to do abouts and mentions and schema um it's it's a

1:20:10 pretty cool tool so far and again I I take these things and break them that's

1:20:16 that's my whole goal in life is to break tools but this one's this one's pretty solid we're doing some testing on the

1:20:21 bulk writing compared to like we're a chat GPT house cuz we we teach chat gbt

1:20:27 how to be our basically but so we're comparing some of the bulk writing um just like we did with content Sprout

1:20:32 Zim Rider and all everything we do have different applications for our affiliate sites and leens compared to client sites

1:20:39 so you know we always test but those are the three I'm looking at right now I like a lot some of the ones we've tried

1:20:45 you know we've tried some stuff in search in search Atlas that was okay there's some things search Atlas is

1:20:51 doing pretty decent I'm excited about some of the stuff stuff coming one of my favorite tools I think anybody that's in

1:20:57 the map business needs to be using lead snap and Lead snap's doing some pretty cool stuff with AI as far as review

1:21:04 responses you know questions and answers all the stuff that you would do within the GBP so yeah it's a I love I love

1:21:11 this stuff I mean I follow people on Facebook there's some people that we're bringing to spring training we're actually going to have a whole AI

1:21:18 breakout room this year so right so we're going to have a whole freaking room just dedicated to AI because I'm

1:21:25 that adamant about it then there's some people that you really need to follow and there's some people that are trying

1:21:30 to get there but there's some people that are really taking Leaps and Bounds in this stuff already and you know and

1:21:36 doing good stuff in our industry so that's one of the things I like about it and there's people out there that are

1:21:42 just loading up content just a load up content whatever that's not us you know I have a little bit more

1:21:49 pride in what I'm producing we we also have moved from content creation for AI to a lot of things of course as did

1:21:54 present at that time so we are doing lot of stuff I love those doing all those stuff putting but but I believe AI is

1:22:02 more how much you how well you are able to feed so that's the key to the getting

1:22:07 the right answers I believe yeah I agree too and and you know we've I've got a brand new client and this client writes

1:22:14 and stories so I'm I'm doing an interesting test right now with chat GPT

1:22:19 to see how well it can write in story format versus typical blogs or Pages or

1:22:26 whatever so I'm having fun with those prompts so that's my my app I call it my

1:22:31 afternoon work after 3 o'clock I shut down on all my client stuff and I just work on saltera type stuff AI type stuff

1:22:39 and so last night when I was watching baseball i s they're playing with these storyboard prompts I was like this pretty cool oh this sucks in there yet

1:22:46 um I do like doing that type of stuff but you're right it you know I think you've I think prompt engineering is a

1:22:52 real thing yes it is and you know but you also have to remember a lot of prompts I get people

1:22:59 to send me to test I'm like gee wiiz man there prompts like this long I could do the same thing this long so you know I

1:23:05 think it you can also like a lot of things take it to the extreme you know so but yeah I get had a guy send me a a

1:23:12 new AI tool yesterday he wants me to work on so I'll test it this weekend but I think it's really exciting especially

1:23:18 since I don't have to pay $30 a freaking article I mean my content bill was just

1:23:23 outrageous because I knew how how and what we wanted to write content about it was just a cost Factor that's what it

1:23:30 was and you know I believed in all our actually all of our content writers I was buying content from are now editors

1:23:37 with ins saltera I've hired them all and so and and that was the whole thing is

1:23:43 like you know I love the way you guys write but I think we could do better on with this and so it's it's pretty cool

1:23:49 to see their you know their transformation also because some of these writers are really good I mean I

1:23:55 had two writers that were specifically medical and legal because they wrote that good you know I had two writers

1:24:01 that were home services you know I don't think my roof roofers even know I do vlogs so why would I put my medical

1:24:07 writer in my roofer though but no it was always good yeah now just final two

Favorite SEO Tools and Resources

1:24:13 questions very quick what are your favorite SE tools my gosh so WordPress wise the

1:24:21 redirection plug-in is like my number one go to I put it on every single site

1:24:26 and it's amazing how many people don't track their 404 errors it's the quickest

1:24:32 way for Google to leave your site is a 404 error fastest way so that's one of

1:24:37 them I'm a huge link Whisperer guy I like link whisper link whisper especially Done Right will help really

1:24:44 help with the whole internal linking process um I love lead snap for my gbps

1:24:51 two main reasons why is because my my staff doesn't have to log into anybody's

1:24:56 GBP anymore that used to keep me up at night getting GBP suspended because I

1:25:02 had a staff from whatever country go into the GBP and do changes I don't have

1:25:07 to worry about that anymore and then the second reason is i' really like the whole insights of it U my reporting is

1:25:13 all built around looker Studio or data Studio as it used to be called I hate Google changing names all the time but

1:25:21 yeah those are those are probably my go-tos as far as SC I'm I don't use ahfs anymore CU I got frustrated with the

1:25:27 pricing structure yeah it's too hard to forecast and a lot of these tool owners need to realize that when you're paying

1:25:34 $19 $199 a month and your bills are between five and $ 800 because of

1:25:40 credits you know agencies typically can't forecast that and so especially

1:25:46 with mine so when I looked at cutting money you know I cut out ahr and we went over to to search Atlas you know we do

1:25:54 like search Atlas for a lot of things some things within search Atlas we don't do but that's like every tool I think

1:26:00 that's the biggest thing is just you know I'm trying to find what you know makes me you know more optimized you

1:26:07 know something I can scale something that's affordable I still have to look at affordability um no matter how big I

1:26:14 get I will always make sure I'm not wasting money you know people don't realize how much you can waste by these

1:26:20 little $39 a month $69 a month another good tool is SU utils it's an it's an

1:26:25 it's a desktop application but it's beautifully done not affiliated with us but you just pay like 20 $30 for one

1:26:32 time then you plug in your data for SEO API or you can rent from them as well

1:26:38 and we have it used for all all of the things and they keep on adding more stuff so we actually love that software

1:26:44 as well exactly some of my favorite Chrome section Chrome extensions is I love Sur Works sep WX it gives a

1:26:52 snapshot on the web page page so I use it a lot when I'm talking to my potential clients because I can show

1:26:59 them the different things that ah refs does mods you know just a snapshot of that stuff and then SEO Quake is another

1:27:06 go-to of mine for Chrome EXT right so but publer publer is my big extension

1:27:13 for maps so but there's a lot of there's a lot of good tool and like I said I get the privilege of testing a lot of them

1:27:20 um and you know some of them are really awesome some might tell people you're not quite there yet because of this or

1:27:25 whatever the one thing I tell people is you know each tool is going to give a different result no especially around

1:27:31 local rankings I like lead snaps ranking tool I like local Dominator you know

1:27:37 local Viking but they're all different they're all going to be different and for me to sit here in in Scottville

1:27:43 Arizona and talking to my client in the Bronx and sitting there saying well this is what these three tools show you know

1:27:50 and there'll be there'll be fluctuations but when you're in the local space I think you need to pay attention more to

1:27:56 you know Trends what's going up what's going down you know don't don't worry so much because you're in Scottdale and you

1:28:02 see oh I'm number three and they're in Bronx and they're number five and you

1:28:08 know it just means you have more work to do it's not something to argue and when you start arguing because somebody

1:28:14 Googles themselves on the toilet that's the first conversation you to get stop Googling yourself on the toilet you know

1:28:21 so but uh I think you know tools are are exactly what they're supposed to be you know if there was ever if every if

1:28:28 there's ever an accurate tool people say I love Google Search console well Google search console is great but not for

1:28:34 ranking it's not a three Monon rolling average it's not it's not yesterday's results and so I think again when it

1:28:41 comes to tools find what works for you find what you can afford that gives you the right results that you can report on

1:28:48 but just remember that you have to take each tool with a with a gr of salt do you read um yes so what are your

Reading Habits: Favorite Books

1:28:54 favorite books you would like to recommend to our listeners anything basically around business there's

1:28:59 anything which influence your thought process I think as far as you know I love reading I love reading SEO books I

1:29:04 love Jason Hennessy's his two books I read anything that comes out about SEO um some of them obviously are outdated

1:29:11 by the time they come out or by the time I get a hold of them or whatever which is fine it's still the thought process

1:29:16 that I like about books is you know they actually get into why they think that way kind of the way I built the schema

1:29:22 course um I do like um books that you know will take me out of my comfort zone

1:29:28 um buy back buy back your time I can't remember I think Dan something anyways buy back your time one of the things

1:29:34 that Selter is doing right now we this is our 14th year and we're still not really good at that front side lead

1:29:42 generation um we can fulfill anything fulfillment has never been a problem for us but I don't have as a business owner

1:29:49 A forecastable system that say I can get 10 leads a month from here 10 leads a month from here here so on and so forth

1:29:55 I never built a sales team and there was specific reasons for that um because I

Terry's Current Reading and Learning

1:30:00 came out of you know a system with flipping houses that most of my people were salespeople but this time I didn't

1:30:08 do it it's actually one of my quas regrets it's not that I want to build a big sales team but I would like to have

1:30:13 some people just paying attention to that side so I'm now reading books and

1:30:18 going to conferences about scaling about doing things better rank Masters which

1:30:24 is Patrick Shannon's big Mastermind group it probably changed my life as far as an agency this year because it it

1:30:31 really taught me what I thought I was doing right that I probably only went halfway through and I needed to go the

1:30:37 other half so Chris Moore's got a got some good books out there Carl Carl

1:30:42 Allen's got some good books he's all about Carl's about Acquisitions you know because eventually I'm going to sell

1:30:48 this sucker and so that's something that I want to start learning about now rather than waiting to what I want to

1:30:55 sell you know there's things I need to do now to get ready to sell in two or three or four years I need to know that

1:31:01 stuff now so those are kind of the the conferences I've been going to the books I've been reading like I said buy back

1:31:09 your time Elizabeth's got like six books on my shelf I gotta read but it's all

Where to Find Terry Online

1:31:14 about growth it's all now about growth personal growth kind of getting out of my own way I mean I know I know I'm not

1:31:20 a successful because of me if I just hire the the right people and get the F out of the way then I'll be a lot more

1:31:26 successful that's what I'm trying to learn now how to do that all right Terry thank you so much

1:31:33 for joining us today and of course your insights have been invaluable of course I myself learned a lot about schema I

1:31:39 thought I knew all about so where can listeners find out more about you and your work saas site.com is my main

1:31:46 agency site I also own SEO university. net that's where I teach teach things

1:31:51 and have my scheme of course in there and then of course seos springt trining

1:31:57 docomo saltera or excuse me saltera site.com is the is my main site it has

1:32:02 all the access to everything there if you want to go steal my scheme or whatever go we we I'll put the link in

1:32:08 the description below so it's easier for them exactly yeah so um but at least go

1:32:14 Go reverse engineer my site go look and see how I do stuff go look and see how I do schema go look and see how I build

1:32:20 Pages you'll learn some things because like I said I've tested this stuff for years and I saltera site's my main

1:32:27 testing site that's where it's a very powerful site and it's where I can see the biggest results the quickest so

1:32:33 typically if you go and I have a have a guy that messages me every couple weeks and say why did you do this to your

1:32:38 blogs so he's kind of following what we're doing because I'm constantly changing and testing things so and then

1:32:43 in my classes I announce what we what we found that works and I have a couple private Facebook groups if you want to

1:32:49 reach out to me I can get you into those too okay that's good that's right okay

Outro

1:32:55 that's all for this episode of the agency Insider and remember to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the

1:33:01 show until next time this is nnit kosel signing off thank you thank you